fignewton | Canon vs. Fanon, part 1: Daniel and Coffee

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Canon vs. Fanon, part 1: Daniel and Coffee

I've been considering doing this for quite a while, and the hiatus in episodes seems like a decent enough time for it. So here we go: canon vs. fanon. Canon is defined as anything directly shown during Stargate: The Movie or episodes of the show; show supersedes movie when there's a contradiction. Fanon is defined as widely-accepted concepts that appear in fanfic, but do not have any real basis in canon. Most of these discussions will be Daniel-centered, but I'll touch upon other subjects on occasion.

Interpretation of a character is obviously in the eyes of the beholder. I fell in love with Daniel just by reading the transcripts at Gatenoise, sometime shortly after the eighth season finale aired. I started watching eps when I couldn't resist any longer, and then I fell in love with the rest of the team. Then I started reading fanfic, and I met lots and lots and lots of other Daniels and Sams and Jacks and Teal'cs – some easily recognizable, a few remarkably like the ones that I saw on the screen and that lived in my head, and many that I didn't know at all.

I'm not going to insist, or even suggest, that every fanfic author out there write their characters to fit my specifications (even if the thought of several thousand new gen teamy goodness stories is immensely attractive). I don't think even the Goa'uld are quite that arrogant! On the other hand, fanfic writers would be doing themselves a great service by making sure that the characters they write about are actually the characters that their readers want to read about – if nothing else, they'll have a lot more readers that way.

There's nothing wrong with fanon, as a concept. For the most part, most common fanon assumptions about Daniel are based on canon, or extrapolated from canon, or at least don't contradict canon. Others… aren't. And if the writer airily asserts, "Well, this is an AU/my personal universe/not really important to the story, so just go with the flow, okay?" – then I will wish the writer well, and go find an author who is actually writing about the Daniel Jackson I know and love.

Some fanon amuses me; some confuses me; and some really, really gets on my nerves. I'll tackle one per post, or possibly a few related ones at once, starting with a real fan-favorite.

Daniel and Coffee

"Coffee" can be subdivided into two common fanon assertions:

Daniel is addicted to coffee and Daniel is a coffee snob.

The first assertion might be exaggerated from canon, but if so, not by much. The movie shows Daniel plodding out of his office to refill his coffee cup right before the symbols-as-constellations inspiration hits; when he's about to present his findings to General West and others, he's juggling several rolled-up papers and a coffee mug, from which he takes a final gulp before casually leaving it on a ledge in the hallway. On the show, we often see Daniel with coffee mug in hand. In Season One alone, Daniel has a paper coffee cup with him during the meeting when he talks Hammond into letting him join SG-1 in CotG; drinks coffee to try and avoid sleep in The Enemy Within, and has a cup next to him while he watches Kawalsky's operation; parks a coffee cup on a coffee maker, or possibly some computer peripheral, before Jack attacks him in The Broca Divide; has a coffee cup with him when he's observing Sam and Janet experimenting on Pelops' nanocytes in Brief Candle; is drinking coffee when he meets Sam in the gateroom with the UAV, her "new toy," has another coffee when the UAV goes out of the Gate, and has a third coffee during the briefing with Hammond in Enigma (apparently Tollans make him thirsty); drinks coffee to keep awake while they're trying to find Jack and Sam in Solitudes; and has a coffee cup with him while he's observing the attempt to operate on Cassandra in Singularity (Daniel seems convinced that those ledges by the observation windows were specifically designed for coffee).

That's seven out of twenty-one episodes. Of the remainder, six are spent entirely off-world; four have little or no time on-world, mostly spent in formal briefings where coffee doesn't seem to be appropriate or available; one features the poor boy when he isn't human, so presumably can't drink coffee; and one involves Daniel spending the entire episode in a drugged pink stupor. That leaves two of twenty-one episodes – Cold Lazarus and Torment of Tantalus – when we could have reasonably expected Daniel to drink coffee and he didn't. (Besides, Katherine insisted on pouring him tea.)

Yeah. I'd call that an addiction, or something close to it.

As an aside, I will cheerfully confess that I skimmed bits and pieces of the entire first season to make sure I got all that right, which was not exactly a hardship. I almost forgot the whole essay thing to simply watch and enjoy. Happy sigh. Love, love, love the early seasons.

So our first bit of fanon is actually canon: Yes, Daniel Jackson really does constantly drink coffee. The common fanfic bit about Jack/Sam/Teal'c/Janet/some secret admirer bringing him coffee doesn't have any canon basis, but it's hardly an unreasonable extrapolation (although bringing Daniel food and drink is another bit of fanon I will discuss in a future post). On the other hand, there's not much canon proof for the other fanon assertion on the subject of caffeine: that Daniel is a coffee snob.

The first real canon suggestion that Daniel is picky about coffee doesn't show up until Season Nine, when Mitchell, the ultimate fanboy, interviews one of the Daniels in Ripple Effect and gives him "Sumatra Mandheling, one cream, two sugars," as his regular preference. The problem with accepting this as proof is two-fold. First, one might theorize that the writers have picked up on the "Daniel as coffee snob" thing from the fans and incorporated it, since it shows up so late in the show's history; and second, while I'm not a real coffee drinker myself, I always thought coffee snobs drank their coffee black and considered milk and sugar to be sacrilege. I also understand that flavored coffees are considered to be anathema by coffee snobs; but an Urgo-influenced Daniel is very appreciative of cinnamon, or possibly chicory, flavored coffee. If I'm wrong about either of those assumptions, please let me know.

(Daniel moodily pours a steady stream of sugar into his coffee when he's in the Waffle House at the End of the Universe in Threads, but I wouldn't use that as proof either way, as it's pretty obvious that he has no actual intention of drinking it.)

We can add to the "not a coffee snob" side of the argument when we note that in the movie, Daniel was using water from a regular water fountain to fill his coffee pot, which means that he didn't much care if the water tasted metallic. Also, if we consider what we know about Daniel as a whole, he probably didn't have the chance to become a coffee snob until the actual Stargate years. The fellow we met in the movie, who lugs around his entire life in two battered suitcases, is hardly likely to be able to splurge on specialty coffee, is he? Nor is it likely that the coffee he drank on digs was brewed in anything other than a small metal pot, rather than a proper coffee-maker. I very much doubt he was drinking specialty coffee when he was working on his degrees, either, and for the same reasons: too expensive, and too impractical, to manage on a student's budget.

Conclusion: Daniel-the-caffeine-addict is canon, but Daniel-the-coffee-snob is fanon with little basis in canon.

ETA: put it under a cut because it's a lot longer than I realized. Sorry 'bout that.

My personal fanon opinion? Daniel loves coffee and drinks it whenever he can; he certainly enjoys specialty coffees, but he's perfectly capable of getting along with Air Force-issue sludge if that's the only thing available.

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I don't think even the Goa'uld are quite that arrogant!

What are you kidding? Of course they are! They're Goa'uld! :-D

Wait, the entire fanfic universe isn't just writing for me? I'm crushed. (Just kidding.)

Re: Daniel and coffee. I agree. I think Daniel is addicted to caffeine. I remember a con report I read where someone asked MS about it, and I think he said caffeine addiction was something he shared with Daniel, but it wasn't a fussy thing (i.e., coffee is first choice, but any caffeine is good caffeine, LOL).

Daniel just likes to use it to stay awake...and overdosed on it during the early sleepless nights when worried about Shau'ri/Sha're.

I took the "Sumatra Mandehling" as a favorite flavor (and from one I understand from true coffee connoisseurs should never have that combination of cream and sugar added to it), more than some sort of insisted special blend.

Aside from taking tea from Catherine, Daniel was heating a tea kettle in the Light...of course, he was about to dive off a balcony there too, so maybe you can argue he wasn't thinking straight then. ;-)

And if the writer airily asserts, "Well, this is an AU/my personal universe/not really important to the story, so just go with the flow, okay?" – then I will wish the writer well, and go find an author who is actually writing about the Daniel Jackson I know and love.

If it's supposed to fit within the story for a plot or character point and the writer does the setting right or sets up the basis for the AU, I can go with the flow, but if it's too far out of canon, it unfortunately loses me as a reader too.

I've seen a few canon/fanon style postings, but never in this detail. Very interesting.

Well, there's caffeine in tea too. And he'd been offworld for a while, so maybe he'd run out. Or, as Redbyrd suggests below, he actually kept ~gasp~ some instant around for, y'know, emergencies.

Regarding AU characterization:

If it's supposed to fit within the story for a plot or character point and the writer does the setting right or sets up the basis for the AU, I can go with the flow

Except that I think that if an author is writing an AU, they have a sort of obligation to make sure that characterization is even closer to canon. Otherwise, it's not fanfic any more; it's original fiction, with characters who happen to have the same names as the characters from SG-1.

As a random example, let's say that someone posts an AU in which... oh, Jack is a famous hockey player and Daniel is hired to act as tutor for Charlie, who wants to follow in his father's footsteps but will lose his scholarship if he doesn't improve his grades in history. And his teacher, Ms. Samantha Carter, has warned Principal Hammond that Jack's old war buddy Teal'c is suspected of peddling the new drug tretonin to kids in the neighborhood, so they're calling in this crack investigator, Janet Frasier, to go undercover and...

Er. If there is an AU like that out there, I don't think I want to know. :)

But the point is that without the proper setting and character notes, who are these people, and why should I care about them? So if you're taking the Stargate away, you'd better make sure that your characters are still the people the readers want to read about, or they're not going to bother.

Or, to turn the topic on its head, it doesn't matter if the author includes everthing on the checklist: there's a "kawoosh," there's a mention of trees and The Wizard of Oz, there's Jaffa and Hammond and the MALP and a ribbon device... All that won't matter if Jack and Daniel and Sam and Teal'c aren't the people I know. No matter how Stargate-y the setting might be, I can't take a weepy Sam, or a truly stupid Jack, or a Teal'c that says "gonna" and uses street slang, or a Daniel that fumbles his gun because he can't remember how to release the safety catch. Because none of those are the people I know.

I think you need good characterization in the normal setting, and stellar characterization in an abnormal setting, or you're no longer writing fanfic. You're writing your own original fiction.

Even if your Daniel loves coffee. :)

As a random example, let's say that someone posts an AU in which... oh, Jack is a famous hockey player and Daniel is hired to act as tutor for Charlie...

Ah, that's not the kind of AU I was talking about. It's more the bend in the road kind. Like, suppose Kawalsky wasn't killed, or Jolinar wasn't found out when she was, or the Stargate program became public, etc.

Yeah, when the AUs are essentially the character names in completely different scenarios, I don't find that's really Stargate fic anymore. Some of it's good, but it's way too AU for me...unless someone writes Teal'c P.I. That would be awesome...probably cracky, but awesome! But if so, you're right, you've got to work extra hard that the character development is top notch.

Or, to turn the topic on its head, it doesn't matter if the author includes everthing on the checklist:
That's the trick of really good fanfic. It's not a matter of having them "talk" the Stargate talk. It's not that Jack makes a random Wizard of Oz comment, it's how, when, and why he makes the comment. Otherwise you've got caricatures of the Stargate team, and not the characters.

Like, suppose Kawalsky wasn't killed, or Jolinar wasn't found out when she was, or the Stargate program became public, etc.

Ah, okay. Except why should I accept characterization as different in those "fork in the road" stories, unless there's a good reason for it? I don't have trouble with stories that include author's notes like, "In my universe, Meridian never happened and Janet Fraiser wasn't allowed offworld in Heroes." I have trouble with authors who assert that since their Stargate universe is different, they needn't bother making the characters recognizable in anything other than sharing names.

Frex, there's an quantum mirror fic out there where they stumble on a Daniel who never got SG-1 back after the S3 finale, because Solitudes didn't happen in his universe. Now, I would have expected that Daniel to be closed down and depressed - not only is he missing his closest friends, and he doesn't know if they've survived, but he's not with them because his stupid appendix blew and he has no hope of ever going offworld ever again, since there isn't a Stargate to go through. And if the author had chosen to take that route, that would have been a fascinating AU Daniel, with different characterization that I would have wholeheartedly embraced... because it would have fit the character.

(The author didn't take that route, sad to say. Maybe someone will write that fic sometime, because I think I'd truly enjoy it. As long as there was a happy ending, natch.)

I didn't rec a month's worth of AUs because I don't like 'em. :) I love episode fixes, or even episode "unfixes" where the story twists for the worse because a single thing didn't happen. (What if Sam hadn't visited Cassie, to use your example?) But as you say, it's not a matter of having them talk the talk; it's a matter of making them the real people we love (they are real, right?!) instead of mere caricatures.

I think you need good characterization in the normal setting, and stellar characterization in an abnormal setting, or you're no longer writing fanfic. You're writing your own original fiction.

Here, here! I love alternate histories based on what-ifs or time travel, but I don't really see the point of taking the characters and making their lives mundane. I'm first and foremost a scifi fan. If these guys were just living ordinary lives, I really wouldn't be interested.

If these guys were just living ordinary lives, I really wouldn't be interested.

Oh, I don't know. Some of my favorite fluffy fics don't involve anything other than the gang on Earth being themselves, and they're delightful. Still, they're themselves, which likely makes all the difference.

Ah, but these are our characters, and they don't have ordinary lives. So even when you see them hanging out having a picnic, it's knowing that the gate is still out there- it's made more dramatic by the contrast to their working lives. That tension between the secret life-and-death drama and the public normality is one of the things that really fascinates me about Stargate. If they were accountants out having a picnic, it wouldn't be the same.

Thanks to

never_at_home who also remembered that con report and that it was here: June 2003 Con Report (http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/interviews/ms/0306fanodysseycon.shtml)

Here's the specific quote about Daniel and coffee as interepreted by his actor, Mr. Shanks:

Q-Is Daniel a coffee snob or caffeine addict?

MS: [Note-MS is absolutely adorable during this entire response.] "He is a caffeine addict! That started because I am. (He grins, crinkling his nose up.) And you don't see it a lot this year because I've finally given into the fact that caffeine no longer has an effect on me. (From the audience a groan of "Oh, no!") "I know! It sucks! Really it does. It's gotten to the point where it just doesn't do anything for me any more. I switched to Coke at, you know, six o'clock in the morning and stuff like that (he rocks back and forth in his chair like a little boy at this point) and it just wasn't happening any more. So I have to find a new drug. Anyone? Anyone?" (Looks around to the audience for suggestions)

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to re-read more of this report, LOL.

Heh. Not to suggest that anyone has a better grasp on the character than the actor that plays him... but Michael Shanks' interpretations can be a bit, hm, facetious. As proof, I offer the "Daniel Jackson is secretly a night-time ninja" thing. :)

OTOH, I was quite pleased that MS confirmed that yes, it was Hathor, or her minions, who cut Daniel's hair. So I really have no excuse, do I?

Still. Canon, to me, is the show and the movie, not actor interviews. See last line of original post for disclaimer. ;)

*Squee*! Dissecting canon in excrutiating detail- my favorite!!

Has it occurred to you that the whistling teakettle has another explanation- that Daniel was *out* of coffee? (With his schedule, I bet running out of things happens a fair amount.) And *gasp* he might even have been reduced to *instant*? (I can't recall, is there actually a teabag visible in The Light, or is it just water heating?)

As you may or may not recall- I used the 'who cares,it's caffeine' in a story, because it didn't make sense to me either that he'd be snobby about good coffee.

As for snobs- I think they come in all flavors. The Purist wants coffee and nothing but. The Hedonist wants something that tastes good- good quality coffee and cream and sugar may or may not be desired. Personally, I see Daniel and myself as kindred spirits. I *like* flavored coffee, prefer milk and usually have sugar too, and enjoy good coffee when I have the chance. But at oh-dark-hundred when I'm stumbling around in a fog of caffeine deprived misery getting ready for work? I drink instant. Black if I'm out of milk. It's faster than brewing, easily makes a single cup, and I can fill my thermos with tea at the same time. (And I drink tea at work because if I drank a quart of coffee a day, my stomach lining would dissolve instead of just, er, tanning....)

Has it occurred to you that the whistling teakettle has another explanation- that Daniel was *out* of coffee?

Only after reading this *excellent* story about the Light that made that fanwank...oh wait, that was your story. ;-) Hah, imagining me not remembering my second favorite missing-scene story. :-D

Although not a coffee drinker myself, I come from a family of them (hell, my dad was in the business). and they never kept instant stocked in their larder because they go with the true blue percolator/machine ground stuff. I presume when out of coffee, go with tea.

I share the caffeine addiction, but range to soda/cola/pop rather than coffee...then chocolate, then tea to get my fix. Got me through two degrees and some long working nights many a time. :-D

Of course, a fandom friend of mine is in denial Daniel is that much of a coffee drinker. I have to say I never noticed Daniel's affinity for coffee as much as it appears in canon, but there's definitely ample evidence for it (I particularly like the look on his face when in search of it in "Chimera", heh).

I have to say I never noticed Daniel's affinity for coffee as much as it appears in canon

Er, that would be as it appears in *fanon*.

D'oh!

Hey, Chimera is the ep where we *know* The Trust is evil because *omg*, they shot the *coffee*!

Er, actually, that was S8 "Affinity". But...Daniel did quickly fall into line there.

Totally OT, but have you ever listened to the commentary for that ep? It's so hilarious. PdL is having a fit about how they used Timmy Ho's in that scene, not just regular crappy coffee. [Tim Horton's is a Canadian coffee chain named/formerly owned by a hockey player and now owned by Dave Thomas's company (Wendy's)...I relate it to a cross between Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts, and the Canadians I've met are quite, er, obsessive about it. LOL]

I said I was going to stop spamming fig's journal didn't I? Oops.

Yes, of course you're right. Brain cramp. I knew which one I *meant*!

Well, if it had been Daniel's cup of coffee that the sniper shot, then they would truly be eeevil. But the coffee belonged to one of their minions, so it was only vaguely wicked.

Shooting a man's coffee would be low, even for ex-NID. Besides, they have a dossier on Daniel- they'd know how much danger they'd be in if they did something that heinous.

Dissecting canon in excrutiating detail- my favorite!!

Mmmm, yes. :)

No, no teabag visible in The Light. Just the kettle whistling. (I love the creepiness of that scene!) I've never even been able to tell exactly what that item was that Jack sent tumbling with a flick of his finger. Half-eaten apple? Half-eaten bread roll? I've seen fics use either one.

I'm glad to hear the opinion of a true coffee snob, because I don't think I've drunk "real" coffee more than once or twice. And yeah, your suggested scenario makes a lot more sense to me than a Daniel who needs... what have I seen? A French press or some such to brew his coffee, which can only be a specific brand of imported coffee beans. I don't mind the coffee snobbery in fanfics, but it amuses me that it's so widespread and almost universally accepted. But it's incredibly easy to picture Daniel stumbling around, as you say, in a fog of sleep-deprived, caffeine-deprived misery and practically eating the instant coffee straight from the jar with a spoon. :)

I can't consider myself a coffee snob. I'll drink anything that doesn't have grounds in it, as a rule...

Oh, and the tea kettle thing seemed a response to me rather than to fignewton...and I just jumped in. Whoops.

Sorry for the journal spam, fig!

[slinks off now]

No problem. :) Maybe someday LJ will allow us to edit comments.

And feel free to jump in. The more, the merrier!

Ooh, I love it. This is exactly the sort of thing I'm always pondering in my head, but don't bother writing down, figuring it will come out in one of my fics, someday, somewhere.

Anyway, I absolutely agree. I've never seen Daniel as a coffee snob. I can definitely see him appreciating a special, well-made cup, but he needs caffeine too much to quibble. It also fits in with his overall character; Daniel is very accepting of pretty much anything that comes his way. (Oh, I have a wife? Well, okay, then.) :)

Also agree with your love of the early seasons. I adore my Daniel in any flavor, but--eee!--sparkly-eyed, long-haired, full-of-wonder Daniel! (When he isn't all but driven into the ground by his losses, of course.)

Also about AUs--the characterization is definitely more important there. I come from SW, where I read lots and lots and lots, and I was always baffled and a little ticked off by those AUs where they would plop the characters down in, say, Elizabethan England, and call them Ben and Quintus or something. Tell me again how this is Star Wars? Those people were just writing stories with those actors in their heads, is all. I'm a big fan of what-if AUs, though.

I'm very curious about what you think of the bringing-Daniel-food thing.

It also fits in with his overall character; Daniel is very accepting of pretty much anything that comes his way. (Oh, I have a wife? Well, okay, then.) :)

This part of your post interests me, because I completely disagree with it. :)

I don't think Daniel has ever placidly accepted whatever happens to him. Discovering his marriage to Sha're and running with it took courage, especially when she offered him a graceful out of sorts. And his entire career has been based on refusing to accept what's assumed, what's out there, and what's happened. He walked away from his planet, then from his adopted homeworld, then took on a personal crusade, then a second one when that one failed, then kept going when that one failed too, and...

Er. Sorry for getting carried away there. :) But seriously, I can't see Daniel as accepting life as much as facing it head-on.

Not that the life attitude reflects on his coffee habits... ;) We both seem to be in agreement there. And yep yep yep, there is much love for sparkly-eyed Daniel. You gotta love the boy.

Will get to the bringing-Daniel-food thing eventually. And calling him "boy," for that matter. Bad FigNewton! No biscuit!

Okay, I should clarify about the accepting thing. I definitely think that he is a fighter, and fiercely courageous in his idealism. I mean, he contradicts EVERYONE. Everyone in his field, everyone he works with. Philsophically, he's a warrior.

I meant more along the lines of cultural differences. He's very open to other ways of thinking. I mean, like, Emancipation, which was not that great an episode, yet it was funny for Daniel trying so hard to accept this totally un-PC culture, while Sam was fighting against it with every atom in her body. And The Broca Divide, where he said they should leave the grunty cavemen alone, even though he was obviously bothered that they had captured Melosha and were apparently going to do nasty things to her. The only culture Daniel DOESN'T accept, or at least try to, is the Goa'uld, and even with them, he shows understanding and compassion for the hosts, which most people have a difficult time with.

My little "I have a wife" comment was more facetious than I meant it to be. I agree that it took a great deal of courage for him to accept Sha'uri, even before it meant never returning to Earth. He obviously loved her a great deal, right from the beginning.

Ah and the coffee debate ranges on...

Personally, I've always seen Daniel as a caffeine addict, though I am not sure if that was my intial decision or something I picked up through fanfic and looked for confirmation in the eps. But if you watch the eps...coffee, candy, powerbars, tea: Daniel tends to favor things that give him energy/keep him awake/have caffeine.

He's not the only one though. Jack seems to drink quite a lot of coffee himself when he isn't talking about beer. Sam to lesser extent and then Teal'c.

Fanon makes me ill. I don't feel enough fanfic writers actively try to engage with canon. We all have our own ways of viewing the characters and no two view will be alike. But you can tell when someone is trying to write canon and when someone isn't.

Grr. Makes Kerri angry.

You've touched upon something I wanted to address in the future: the candy/chocolate bars thing. Which don't appear on the show at all. You'd never know that from reading fanfic, though.

Yeah. Daniel as caffeine addict does it for me, too. And yes, they all do drink coffee. Goes with the job: you need a pick-me-up, and it needs to be non-alcoholic. Coffee is just about the only thing available.

When does Teal'c drink coffee, outside of Urgo?

I have to say, though, that fanon doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you. (How dangerous is it to make Kerri angry...?) Fanon extrapolated from canon, that is. Or fanon that's true to an individual author's personal universe. As an example, take Redbyrd's trio of astronauts who end up joining the SGC, then have an entertaining cameo in her wonderful Rearranging Fate. That's her fanon, but it's entertaining and I enjoyed the cameo quite a bit!

Now, fanon that takes away from canon... I'll agree with you on that one. Which is why I wanted to start this series of posts in the first place. :)

No candy and chocolate bars do not appear in the show at all, but they appear in the movie and fit nicely with the sugar/caffeine theme. So it's part of the continuity as far as I am concerned. And in FiaD, even though it's in his head, Sam brought him chocolate cookies that he likes. It all just fits. If I read Daniel eating a candy bar in a fic, it won't bother me. If the writer makes a big deal out of it, say, Daniel cannot live without his chocolate or some comment is made about candy or powerbars or anything, then I will start getting testy because it is fanon. It's a fine line to walk. Some people do it well and others don't.

It makes sense to me that Daniel as a schoalr would have a bit of a junk food and coffee issue. Those are bad habits one develops in collge, continues to develop in grad school, and then just stay with you as an established scholar. Those who do not ride the caffeine train (like myself) do feel the pinch. I know that I will find myself drinking some soda if I need a burst and if I am desperate. So it really isn't far off the mark. And hey, it's realistic. I had an archaeology professor who was never without his tea or coffee. It cracked me up every day.

I'm definign fanon differently than you, I think. I hate fanon. Hate hate hate. But for me fanon is something that is so cliche and widely used that people start to take it as fact and there is no basis for it. It's a valid idea that just took off running. Like the coffee bit. You can assume quite rationally based on canon that Daniel is an addict. It turns into a fanon problem when it spirals out of control. There is the difference for me. If someone writes a fic and in every other scene it is shown that Daniel is drinking coffee, then it's fine. But if there is this heavy empahsis on Daniel drinking coffee...well they don't do that on the show. That would irk me.

I have simialr issues with aniel born in Egypt. He could have been born there. It's possible. But it is not fact. Yet every other fic I pick up insists he is born in Egypt. That annoys me. People are entitled to take whatever spin they want, but some ideas catch on and then become pseudofact. Does that makes sense?

Heh. And these days, it doesn't take much to make Kerri angry. The character assasination I see in fic makes baby Jesus cry.

But I've ranted and ranted and ranted about that in the past on my LJ. It never seems to get old, though.

I have simialr issues with Daniel born in Egypt.

Of course not, he was born in Olympia, Greece...or Oregon, but I *know* it's canonically one of the two. ;-) I'm starting a revolution! And going off topic, LOL

And to respond to fig, I'm not sure when Teal'c drinks coffee outside of Urgo. He's drank juice, and accepted tea, and though refuses bovine lactose at any temperature, seems to make an exception for Ben and Jerry's ice cream.

That's a different fanon/canon thing. Teal'c in canon refrains from anything alcoholic, but I don't recall that he's had an opinion one way or the other on caffeine. I would guess if he was that opposed to it, even Urgo's prompting wouldn't have let him try it. Like no one else but him tried the defib paddles because they all knew it could hurt a healthy person. But that's JMHO and it could go either way.

Heh. In Rheanna's truly wonderful Roses in December, Janet is trying to discover if anyone else besides Jack is suffering from memory loss:

"What about the rest of you? Any memory troubles?"

Daniel shrugged. "I don't think so."

"Where were you born?"

"On a ferry going between Terverya and Kinneret." Five pairs of eyes gazed at Daniel curiously. "It's a long story."

Fifty points for originality, I'd say. :)

LOL about to Teal'c's concession to bovine lactose when it comes in the form of Ben and Jerry's! Regarding alcohol, I always assumed - and there's the fanon aspect again! - that Teal'c didn't bother with alcohol because his symbiote wouldn't let him get drunk.

So, drink the coffee when Urgo is upping his taste buds, but possibly not otherwise? And that's quite an interesting slant to take regarding Urgo's manipulations. Are you suggesting that Teal'c wouldn't have been harmed, or that he had less experience with it?

True that is original. But the Olympia thing I propose is canon. (And Moonshayde knows it because I've converted her).

In S6 Disclosure, Daniel's personnel stats are up on the screen behind Major Davis. You can read his birth location as Olympia, and something that's either OR or GR (focus is not sharp enough to distinguish O/G/Q/C, but it is definitely a round letter, but I'm positive about the rest). There's no such place as Olympia Oregon, but that is where his grandfather was in the mental institution. And then again, there IS an Olympia Greece.

Regarding alcohol, I always assumed - and there's the fanon aspect again! - that Teal'c didn't bother with alcohol because his symbiote wouldn't let him get drunk.

That's complete fanon. He refuses to partake in alcohol in canon...if his symbiote processed it, he wouldn't have insulted some alien cultures by refusing to drink it (toast in "Other Side"). No explanation is ever given, it's just something that makes Teal'c different.

I've also seen fanon get the symbiote thing and have Teal'c be able to drink others under the table...which is completely CONTRARY to canon. LOL.

So, drink the coffee when Urgo is upping his taste buds, but possibly not otherwise? And that's quite an interesting slant to take regarding Urgo's manipulations. Are you suggesting that Teal'c wouldn't have been harmed, or that he had less experience with it?

No, I'm not sure we've seen Teal'c refuse or accept coffee. Wait, he had coffee in 200 post-Oz sequence! (Well, how much we can count any of 200 as canon is questionable). So I've never thought it was way out for Teal'c to drink Urgo's coffee.

Am I saying what? With the defibrillator? I think Teal'c would have been hurt, but he did not have enough knowledge/experience with the machine himself to realize it, and so he followed Urgo's prompting while the others resisted "I don't think so." But that's just my interpretation.

Huh. Expecting me to know something that took place in S6 outside of Abyss, Changeling, and Full Circle is just plain silly. :) But if you could possibly post a screencap, I would love that, so I can include it in a future post. Because Daniel's childhood is definitely on my to-do list, and I had no idea there was an actual canon location for his birth!

And you're right, of course, about Teal'c and alcohol in The Other Side. I'm so focused on Daniel in that ep that I tend to lose sight of everything else. :) But I absolutely, utterly adore the completely deadpan delivery of, "I do not know. He is concealing it."

You're one of the three episodes in Season Six fans, huh? LOL.

Yes, I was anal enough to actually zoom in my dvd image to look cross-eyed and decipher. I can't seem to transfer the image to my photobucket (because I suck at this stuff, but I know hotlinking is bad, heh), but if you go: here (http://www.stargatesg1971.com) and image 2034 in disclosure Stargate screencaps shows it...but it's rough to read, I'll warn you!

From what I could decipher, this is what it reads:

ENLISTMENT RECORD NO: 00-404-226
ENLISTMENT RECORD: ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES
DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE

NAME: JACKSON, DANIEL DATE OF BIRTH: [ILLEGIBLE]
PLACE OF BIRTH: OLYMPIA, OR/GR (?)
SEX: MALE RACE: CAU
COLOR OF EYES: BLUE COLOR OF HAIR: BROWN
HEIGHT: 6'00"
WEIGHT: 175 LBS.

HOME ADDRESS: 4?00 [ILLEGIBLE STREET]
MARITAL STATUS: SINGLE

EDUCATION
HIGH SCHOOL: GRADUATED
FIRST SECONDARY: GRADUATED
FINAL DEGREE: PHD
DEGREE OF STUDY: ARCH ANTH

MAIN CIVILIAN OCCUPATION:
ACADEMIC - ARCHEOLOGICAL TRANSLATOR
DATE [ILLEGIBLE]: 11901-E

SERVICE NO: N/A : CIVILIAN
PHYSICAL CATEGORY: A-2
ENLISTMENT LOC: COLORADO

Here, I think I did it. link (http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/auroranovarum/image2034.jpg)

D'oh. I ended up putting it in my lj. Hope I didn't steal your thunder though.

I'm loving your canon/fanon essays. When's the next one when's the next one (see you beg for fic, I can pester for this stuff. *eg*)

Oooh, you sweetheart!

Wonderful stuff. Thank you!

May I have your permission to use this when I do Daniel's childhood? I'll credit you, of course.

So glad you're enjoying this! Next one coming up tomorrow, actually. Does this mean I get a fic in return? *veg*

Sure, you can use it. :-)

[fic? Did you ask for fic? what? I can't hear you! hee hee]

Seriously, I'm working through my WIP list (between poking

moonshayde for hers).

Oh, I wholly agree with you that a Daniel that loves chocolate and junk food makes complete sense. As you say, it's absolute canon from the movie, and fits well with the profile of his past. But, also as you say, there's a vast difference between writing a casual reference to Daniel pulling a chocolate bar out of his stash to tide him over and making it an absolute obsession, like too many fanfic writers do.

I think we are defining fanon as the same thing: a fanfic presumption that is so widespread that a new fan, who might have read more fic than actually seen eps, will be unable to tell the difference. It's irksome. Some aspects are infuriating. Some aspects... well, I can live with it. Like Daniel the coffee snob, which doesn't bother me even a fraction as much as my next topic, to be posted later this week. :)

Deep breaths, Kerri. Go watch The Fifth Race and don't let those irritating fanon fanfics get you down. ;)

I know I'm waaaay late to this party, but just for interest's sake, Sumatra Mandehling isn't flavored coffee, per se. It's a variety of coffee.

I manage to be able to get it at a local roastery (in Denver) at a very reasonable price. And a little dollop of cream in it is quite delightful, though I do turn my nose up at sugar ;)

Hey, I admitted I know nothing about specialty coffees. :)

Did I imply that Sumatra Mandheling is a flavored coffee, rather than a high-specialty blend? That wasn't my intention. What I wanted to suggest was that anyone willing to dilute good quality coffee with sugar and cream, on what is apparently a regular basis, couldn't be all that much of a coffee snob; but I'll cheerfully accept the opinion of people who actually know something about coffee over my own.

And late to the party? Not at all! Feel free to drink any coffee still left in the pot, although you might want to brew something fresh by now. :)

I'm not sure it was you. I was scanning the responses and someone noted that real coffee snobs didn't drink flavored coffees. Which sort of implied that Sumatra Mandehling was flavored.

And hey, I sure wouldn't have known if I didn't actually buy the stuff. Actually, I was just about blown away when that was the same blend or whatever that Mitchell offered Alt!Daniel.

It's really not that expensive, either. I only buy it when it's on special for $8.95/lb., which is sort of middle of the road for decent coffee.

But I'm also not picky. I'll drink swill if that's all there is ;)

This is brilliant! I've come by way of a link in a comment on a meta-post about fanon.

I had not noticed Daniel's coffee addiction until I read fanfic, and then I did start noticing it more. And yes, I absolutely agree that he's not a coffee snob - mostly because pre-SG-1 it's unlikely to have been able to afford it, and he just doesn't seem like the picky type.

Interestingly, coming from involvement in SGA fandom, there is a similar question about one Rodney McKay. Now, it is indisputable that he's a coffee addict - in 'Underground' he's seen guzzling coffee, and complaining that their supplies are running out - to which Sheppard makes a comment that it would last longer if he didn't insist on drinking 11 cups per day, and Rodney doesn't deny this statistic. Further evidence of his coffee addiction seems rather superfluous after that, but he does mishear 'tava beans' as 'java beans' in the same episode, and in 'The Gift' we see him peering into an empty coffee cup. (see icon)

He also is portrayed as a coffee snob in fanon, and I think this ridiculous. This is the man who likes hospital food, MREs and his only complaint about airplane food is that there isn't enough of it. He's not exactly into fine living, and doesn't seem to have sensitive taste buds if he likes that crap. Therefore I reckon - probably not a coffee snob, although there's no canon evidence either way, just my extrapolation from his comments about food.

Sorry for veering off course, but it seemed (vaguely) linked.

Welcome to the party! Glad you could join us. :)

Maybe it's simply hard for some people to understand that someone can be a coffee addict and not a coffee snob? Or maybe we want our heroes to have refined tastes?

I don't follow SGA, but since you're a Rodney fan, you might enjoy this:

The real reason Rodney got sent to Russia after 48 Hours

Oh that's a great cartoon!

I'm considering (although I'm far from doig anything about it right now) doing a similar thing with SGA - specifically with John and Rodney. I was wondering if you'd mind me using your format, and even your fanon divisions, as they seem to be scarily similar across the two shows, even if at times they come from opposite directions (eg - Rodney is sometimes characterised in fanfic as 'a soldier' and NOT as someone who is useless with weapons, despite the examples of him being pathetic with firearms).

I love

littlekru's stuff. Check out the rest of it!

I don't pretend to have any claim on the concept of canon vs. fanon, and I'm sure I'm not the first one to use such a format! I don't follow SGA and so I wouldn't be able to enjoy your John and Rodney versions, but go right ahead and do whatever you'd like. Everyone loves meta. :)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Canon vs. Fanon, part 1: Daniel and Coffee

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