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I'm turning to my f-list, and anyone else who might wander by, for some help.
I'm working on the next installment of Canon vs. Fanon, which includes Daniel's fondness for chocolate/candy and alcohol. I'm having a little trouble with my research, and I hope that some of you out there might be able to clarify things for me.
I know very little about alcoholic drinks. Aside from the occasional half-glass of semi-dry or dry wine, I don't drink; my husband drinks even less, so he's no help, either. :) I know nothing about beer, American or otherwise. I can't tell the difference between light beers or dark ones or imports or whatever else is different about them. I have this vague idea that canned beer is less classy than bottled beer, but I don’t know where I got that assumption, or whether or not it's true.
I know even less about hard liquor, whether it's whiskey, vodka, tequila, scotch, rum, or whatever else might exist out there. I've never stepped foot in a bar, so I don't know how to identify the glasses or drinks in any given scene to determine what the characters are drinking.
Can anyone help me? I've already gotten some nice info out of ![[profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
princessofg regarding Upgrades, although I have to admit that I don’t actually know what a pilsner is. :) But to be really thorough, it would be ideal if I knew exactly what the characters are drinking. Since fanon makes various assertions regarding imports and microbrews – which, as I've said, mean absolutely nothing to me – it would be enormously helpful if all you knowledgeable people out there could tell me precisely what kinds of beer, liquors, and other alcoholic drinks are consumed by Daniel, or in Daniel's company, or by other members of SG-1.
As far as I can tell, the episodes in question are as follows (reference to one small S9 spoiler from Ethon):
COTG. Beer at Jack's. Can anyone tell from the shape of the bottle or the label what brand they're drinking?
Upgrades. Daniel drinks beer – princessofg identifies it as dark beer – and the others are drinking something else – pilsner? – and Jack has a shot of something a little stronger. Any more clarification?
2010. They drink champage at the ceremony and there are used wineglasses at the dinner table. I'll touch on Teal'c in the actual post.
Absolute Power. Daniel opens champagne. Anyone know which label costs $2,000 per bottle?
Threads/Moebius. Teal'c and Daniel carry a cooler between them as they join Sam and Jack on the little dock of the fishless/fish-filled pond by the cabin and Daniel pulls out two beers. Can't see a label, but maybe someone with better resolution can spot it.
Season Nine Spoiler! Ethon. Mitchell offers Daniel a beer (in a can) in the closing scene. Which brand? Can anyone tell? Is there a difference in quality/snobbishness/taste between bottled and canned beer?
Besides that, Jack offers Daniel a Budweiser in Shades of Grey; they're drinking Guiness in
While I intend to touch upon them in the final post, drinks offered off-world, whether or not Daniel drinks them, don't offer any indication towards preference, as the team usually isn't in a position to do anything other than accept or decline. On a similar note, I'll expand on the problems inherent on relying on episodes like 2010, Upgrades and Absolute Power for absolute canon.
Thanks to all of you in advance! :)
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However, and I will recheck, but I'm virtually 98% sure that the beer Cam gives Daniel (and Daniel drinks) in Ethon is a Coors Light.
A pilsner beer is basically any light amber-colored beer. There may be more to it than that (such as there are wheat beers, etc.), but that's not really evident by color. I'll look closer as I recheck.
In Full Alert, when Jack comes home with the Heinekin beer, Kinsey is in his living room and declares "You're out of Scotch", to which Jack replies, "If I knew you were coming, I would have hidden the good stuff". I take this as canon evidence that Jack is a Scotch drinker. (This might not be verbatum, I'm relying on my memory right now). Extrapolating backwards, I think it's safe to assume the shot Jack was drinking in Upgrades was also Scotch.
Without getting into a whole diatribe about it, I construe Jack's reference to the "good stuff" as single-malt Scotch. The best kind of Scotch. There are good blended Scotches as well, but true afficianados (snobs) turn their noses up at the blends. It's a dig at Kinsey, implying that he's not worthy of a decent single-malt.
Okay, off to review the other eps now and see what I can come up with.
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So, light beers vs. dark beers means... what? And is Coors Light decent beer? And "light" beer means less alcoholic, right?
Looking forward to what else you can tell me. And your willingness to strain yourself by watching more eps of SG-1 on my behalf is really touching! :)
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Hee! Oh, yeah! It's such a sacrifice, but I'll force myself for you, hon ;)
Okay, a bit about beers. Light-colored beers are not necessarily 'light' in terms of calories. Yes, they're generally a bit less than the darker beers, but it's more about the flavor of the beer. Pilsner beers are lighter in flavor and less-filling. It has to do with the ingredients used to make the beers and the brewing style and I'm no expert in that stuff.
Dark beers can vary from being just a bit heavier in taste than a pilsner (light) beer, right on up to being quite thick and heavy. Guiness is quite a dark, thick beer, very rich in taste. Hops, an ingredient in beer, contributes greatly to how bitter or tart a beer tastes. And there are also Porters and any number of 'styles' of beers.
For the purposes of your discussion, it's probably best to simply consider light and dark beers. Light beers may, or may not be, low calorie. They're simply lighter in flavor and consistancy - the sort of thing you'd want to drink on a hot summer day. Dark beers vary from the darker amber color of Daniel's beer in Upgrades, right up to the much darker color of the Guiness at Jacks in Lost City
Oh yes, alcohol content. The pilsners do (generally) have a lower alcohol content. Darker color doesn't *always* equate with higher alcohol content, but the Guiness from Lost City has a significantly higher alcohol content than, say, Coors Light.
Oh, I just rewatched the end of Ethon. It is Coors Light indeed. And um... it's known as 'Rocky Mountain piss water' to us locals, so no, it's not a great beer. Truthfully, not a truly terrible one either, but it's cheap and plentiful. Personally, if I'm going to drink something... mainstream like that, I prefer Bud Light.
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First of all, canned vs bottled beer: Some people claim beer tastes better out of glass and will not buy cans. For the USA market, almost every conceivable brand is available in cans mostly because of all the drinking that's done at lakes, or at concerts, where broken glass is TEH BAD. All American beers are available in both glass and aluminum; no diff there. Imported beers that want to be consumed by the masses come in cans as well. But it is true that glass is better as far as keeping it tasting right.
(Guiness: I always get the drink and the record book's spelling confused, and I am not turning to any resource books just now because I'm squeezing this comment in while the kids are at the neighbors, so don't hold me to this, but I thought the drink had two n's? Stout is a beerlike drink from the UK and Ireland that is thick and bitter tasting, so Jack is right. It does make a great substitute for food. And Daniel was apparently drinking it during Lost City, yes?)
Pilsner and lager are the lighter, golden colored styles of beers that Americans are most familiar with.
There are many kinds of dark beer (more brown or caramel colored) that range from bitter to sweet but are more thick and chewy tasting than USA beer. In general the Germans and Brits think our beer is weak and watery, and they're right, compared to theirs. Except for the local microbrewery beers....
Europeans drink beer at much warmer temps than the US folks tend to.
Heineken seems to be one beer Jack does certainly buy and drink; it's a German beer designed for American tastes, IMHO. It's dry and crisp and best very cold. It comes in green bottles with short necks.
(It's fanon that Jack likes watery American beer and Daniel has to educate him. OTOH, perhaps they started out that way in Children of the Gods and by the time of Lost City Daniel had turned Jack on to Guinness and other dark beers. Who knows! It's a reasonable extrapolation. The beer bottles in COTG were dark brown longnecks, so they weren't Heineken, but they could be many other things. I don't remember seeing the label.)
In Upgrades, Daniel's beer in the glasses on the table at O'Malley's is clearly darker than Jack and Sam's. Jack also has a shot glass in front of him, which would typically be whiskey of some kind, to go along with his beer.
In the ep where Kinsey invades Jack's living room, Kinsey pours out the last drops of Jack's scotch whiskey, which is clearly Dewar's, a very typical, nothing special, but certainly classy and respectable Scotch. It's not exotic but it's not lowbrow either.
I can't tell what beer they are drinking in either the end of Moebius or in Fire and Water or Children of the Gods. I'll have to look again.
As far as Absolute Power, there are a few truly pretentious kinds of French or probably even California champagne that could cost $2,000 a bottle, but I don't know the brands without researching it. Champagne is not somethign I know much about.
Hope that's a good beginning.
(Fanon often has Daniel drinking red wine, but i don't think we've ever seen that in canon even one time.)
Thanks again for doing this.
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Yeah, I think you're right! I think Ethon was Coors Light! Did Daniel drink it? Because that is NOT a snobby sort of beer. At all. In fact it's a fairly awful beer if you are a beer snob, even a mild one.
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COTG After much study of the scene and liberal use of the zoom feature on my DVD player, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's Moosehead beer they're drinking. I had to keep in mind that these scenes were shot ten or so years ago, so labeling has changed since then, but I think I could *just* make out the shape of a moose on the label. Moosehead is a halfway decent Canadian beer, available here in the states. It's darker and heavier than the average American beer, but I don't know that it qualifies truly as a 'dark' beer.
Upgrades Since there are no bottles on the table, it's impossible to tell exactly what the brands are, but Daniel's beer is quite dark. I'd remembered it as only slightly darker than the others, but no, it's truly a dark beer. Could be a Porter, Guinness or any of a number of popular dark beers. Jack's shot definately *could* be scotch, but that amber color doesn't really tell us a lot - just that it's not tequila, vodka or gin, which are (usually) clear. There are a ton of whiskeys it could be. But I take it as Scotch because of the much-later-in-canon comment to Kinsey. (And I'll shut up about cultural changes, perceptions and popularity of various liquors over the years. Not germain.)
Threads/Moebius/200 Same scene, shot slightly differently each time. Even with max zoom on, it's practically impossible to tell much about the beer bottles Daniel takes over to Jack and Sam. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say Budwieser (not light), but that's only because of what I could see, the labels were red and white and they were longnecks, which Bud comes in.
That's about it. I can't ever remember seeing Daniel drink wine, other than the Champagne in Absolute Power, but I'm not sure how much that counts. In that case, he seemed more enthralled with its price than anything else.
In Momento Mori we see Daniel eschew any alcoholic drink in favor of water, even though he ordered a martini for Vala. Of course, he was driving presumably, so...
Oh! I know of two champagnes that might cost that much. Dom Perignon and Cristal. There are probably others.
Anything else I can help with?
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And actually, I discovered something. At the risk of violating the 4th wall thing, they actually are trying to hide the labels from us. In Fire and Water Jack has a beer bottle in hand when Sam and Teal'c walk in. When he puts the bottle down, he actually turns the label away from camera! D'oh!
But actually, I think it's also Moosehead. Same label as in CoTG. And um, I know I'm beginning to sound like a broken record, but I sort of suspect that the can that he pops open to pour in a glass? Yeah, I'm thinking Moosehead again. I guess it's not totally unlikely that they'd use a single brand for a couple of eps.
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And yes, Daniel drinks the crappy beer! And it is crappy.
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Moosehead is an excellent beer. Far from the category of Coor's Light.
But then, Budweiser at the cabin? Jack has broad taste in beer.
Thanks so much for scrutinizing the dvd's! Since she posted this I've been all thinky about it. Hee.
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It was definitely Coors Light that Mitchell gave to Daniel.
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Is this still going to just be Daniel and drinking, fig? Or are you stretching to Jack's palate, since he does find beer such a good substitute for...food. :-D
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Guinness the beer company sponsors the world records. That's why it's Guinness's Book of World Records! LOL.
Oh, topic. LOL. I agree. In canon, I don't recall Daniel ever drinking wine either. And
(But then I tend to think Daniel doesn't really like beer. I've had this discussion with others before and I think he drinks it socially but it's not his preference...but that's a discussion for your NEXT post.)
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Sam drank beer in Fire and Water, and in Lost City. Teal'c drank juice in the latter of some sort (I'd have to watch the scene again), but Teal'c never drinks alcohol).
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The beer that Jack poured in Fire and Water was not dark. It was more golden than that, and then he had a fit over the bubbles and went out to have a flashback and flip out.
I'm really happy to find out that it was probably Moosehead and intend to use that in fic forthwith...:).
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But also, these days Moosehead comes in green bottles, at least here in the US. But back in the late 90's? In Canada? Who knows?
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Interestingly enough, Daniel drinks it, but hesitates just a moment before he does. I suspect it's not up to his standards ;)
That he does it for Mitchell makes it all the more important. I guess.
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Yes, I've always thought so. Though no, Daniel didn't actually drink any in that scene.
It's been a long time since I've had any Moosehead beer, but I seem to remember it being a fairly rich pilsner. Meaning that it's a golden color, rather than the true 'Dark Beer' color. But I could be wrong. It's been a long time.
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These are fantastic and will be a huge help. Thanks so much!
One thing you might be able to tell me: am I insane, or is Daniel, at the end of Threads, holding only one bottle instead of two? The camera doesn't zoom in as much, so it's hard to tell. But it would be a hilarious little detail to add to the "close enough" differences if I'm right.
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Wait, wait, he's drinking from a bottle, but he pours from Sam from a can? Bit lacking in the hospitality department, isn't it?
And I like the idea of continuity with the brand. Surely most people stick to one brand out of preference?
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I have to consider this one, but I think it fits nicely with the slowly-forming hypotheses.
All of you are being so helpful!
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That fanon thing is exactly why I need this info. I like your backing and filling to make it reasonable, there. :)
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Are you serious about the sponsorship thing? That disappoints me, somehow. Makes it less respectful.
Daniel does drink wine in 2010. Which is a topic of its own as to whether it counts as canon. :)
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Thanks for the Sam tips. And she drinks wine in the Orlin ep, right? And yes, thank you re Teal'c; I'll be discussing him too.
You people are fantastic helps! ::hugs::
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LOL! And we've scored a canon victory! :) :)
Thanks to ALL of you for your help here!
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Of course, that's since turned around with "product placement" and now companies PAY to have their products shown on tv shows.
I wouldn't doubt Moosehead is available in Colorado. It's been imported to the US for a while. I had it on tap at the real "Cheers" bar when I visited Boston *cough* years ago.
I think people tend to have brand preferences for beer, but may be willing to try out different types. Like sometimes not in the mood for Heineken. Or more in a mood for Guinness. I live in an area where we have seafood feasts. Some people only like a kind of beer for that. Others prefer any kind. My ex-boyfriend who was a rabid beer drinker preferred coke/pepsi when doing the feast. So maybe it depends on the occassion?
But I'm not a beer drinker myself, so it's hard for me to judge.
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http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/corporate/about_us.aspx
"In 1951, Sir Hugh Beaver, then the managing director of the Guinness Brewery, went on a shooting party and became involved in an argument. Which was the fastest game bird in Europe – the golden plover or the grouse? He realized then that a book supplying the answers to this sort of question might prove popular. He was right!"
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(Although now I'm thinking about air speed velocity of an unladen swallow...carrying coconuts...)
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Mitchell, on the other hand...
Hmmmm. :)
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Thanks for this little tidbit. :)
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I think regs and their adherence to them may vary from base to base whether it's even allowed in the facility, but I'm just going by my military knowledged friends.
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You'll sometimes see 'fake' labels show up on shows, too, but I can't remember them ever doing that in Stargate.
Morley brand cigarettes is probably one of the more famous 'fake' brands, from the X-Files television program. And I can't remember where it was, but I saw Morleys show up on another program of the same era.
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I love this insight, because it meshes so well with so much going on during Absolute Power. Thanks!
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You know, as far as the end of Threads is concerned, I have to admit that I *assumed* it was two bottles, so I was focusing more on the labels than the number of bottles.
He's holding them a fairly conventional way for people who pick up multiple longnecks. One between index and middle fingers and another between middle and ring fingers.
I'll have to check the dvd when I get home. I *think* there's sound effects of two bottles, but it isn't all that unusual an error, especially since they used this scene three different times in three different eps.
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Or not. :)
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And I've never bought the "Jack drinks crap beer" argument -- he just drinks all different kinds of beer. I remember once reading that canon prop says Jack was posted in Mildenhall, England, and we know he's served in Incirlik, Turkey. He's had missions in Germany, Iraq and Central America. I'm guessing his beer palate is pretty broad, and he probably buys whatever he's in the mood for at the moment. My handwave on Daniel's SoG line is that he knew Jack had been on a piss beer streak lately. If Daniel generally chooses dark beer when out and happily drinks Guinness at Jack's, Budweiser isn't really his style. ;-)
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I don't think it's any different than other beverages. Some people nearly always drink the same thing, some like variety. I drink tea, coffee, water, juice (various kinds), soda or milk on a regular basis. My husband drinks cola, cola and more cola. He rarely drinks alcohol. I'll drink wine, beer, sherry, port or hard cider. Depends on what I'm eating, what I'm in the mood for, and what's available. I don't drink a *lot* of alcohol- it's expensive, high in calories, and I'm behind the wheel of a car a lot, and don't drink at all when I'm driving. But I like variety when I do.
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when Jack is drinking Guiness in LC, ummm, he can NOT be drinking a real bottle of Guiness or the sound guys didn't know what they were editting out, or someone forgot to edit IN a sound - Guiness has a widget in the bottle/can that provides the bubbles in Guiness beer and it makes a very distinctive sound (it is there to simulate the on-tap process of carbonation (and in Guiness the bubbles FALL not rise!!))...
just an observation that not everyone would even notice i'm sure.... :)
bb - hubby drinks beer, the darker brews, as many have a richer flavour... i'm allergic to beer :P
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The info on Guinness is fascinating and completely incomprehensible to me. And how, exactly, do the bubbles fall instead of rising? Maybe Roald Dahl has something to do with it? ;)
Allergic to beer, eh? I'm waiting to see someone wish that allergy on Daniel in a fic!