Canon vs. Fanon, part 8: Daniel, Pacifism, and Weapons Skills

[fignewton]

Welcome to the next edition of Canon vs. Fanon! And hello to all the new people of my f-list. :) Drop a comment, say hi, and join the discussion! Differing opinions are welcomed, too.

As I've mentioned in many of these posts, most fanon affectations are only minor irritations for me, particularly those that can be reasonably extrapolated from canon and are simply a case of fanon getting a bit carried away (or a lot). This section of Canon vs. Fanon, however, addresses a common fanon trope that's almost as annoying to me as regular doses of "Dannyboy." You have been warned. :)

One of the reasons I love Daniel is because of the complexities and contradictions in his character. So when authors toss that complexity away to try and retrofit his personality to suit their idealized version of Daniel, I tend to stop reading and find something else. Unfortunately, these two bits of fanon sneak into way too many stories, so it's time to get a good look at canon and make a determination:

Is Daniel Jackson a pacifist?

And even if he might have the will, does he have the skill?

Recap: Canon is defined as anything we see onscreen during Stargate: The Movie or episodes of the show; show supersedes the movie when there's a contradiction. (The Stargate is housed in Cheyenne Mountain under NORAD, not in a missile silo in Creek Mountain). Fanon is defined as widely-accepted concepts that often appear in fanfic, but do have any actual basis in canon.

Let's begin with the first fanon assertion: Daniel is a pacifist.

For the purpose of this discussion, I probably need only examine a single episode of the first season to make my point, but I'll go with the broader perspective and offer examples from several episodes and seasons, including the movie. I think there's some interesting discussion and perspective in some of Daniel's choices in the last two seasons (up to The Quest, part 1), but the pacifism thing is mostly confined to the Daniel of the earlier seasons; I've never seen any author suggest that post-ascended Daniel is a pacifist. So while I'd very much enjoy analyzing the sheer pragmatism of Daniel's actions in Prototype and whatever the S10 opener is called (just goes to show how little impression it made on me…), I don't think it fits the topic under discussion. If you disagree, comment and let me know!

Disclaimer: this is not an attempt in any way to condone, or commend, or condemn pacifism and its moral worth. It is simply an analysis of the actions of Dr. Daniel Jackson onscreen, and how those canonical actions contradict the assertion that Daniel is a pacifist. Please do not let this become a discussion of world events and politics. Let's leave it wholly in the world of Stargate, okay?

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

First of all, let's actually define the noun "pacifism." Here are some definitions, lifted from various on-line dictionaries, including Merriam-Webster, Oxford, and others:

• the doctrine that all violence is unjustifiable
• the belief that disputes should be settled by peaceful means and that war and violence are unjustifiable
• the belief that war is wrong, and therefore that to fight in a war is wrong
• the view that war is morally unacceptable and never justified
• opposition to war or violence of any kind
• the belief that violence, war, and the taking of lives are unacceptable ways of resolving disputes
• opposition to war or violence as a means of settling disputes; specifically : refusal to bear arms on moral or religious grounds

Daniel prefers peace to war; he advocates finding peaceful solutions whenever possible; he actively campaigns for trying the friendly approach when meeting new people and cultures. But he does not refuse to take up arms; on the contrary, he came into the world of Stargate with at least small-arms skills, and he's only improved over the years. He will shoot and kill, when necessary, and he is not convinced that war on the Goa'uld is morally unacceptable.

Pacifism is not defined as a strong dislike towards the necessity (or inevitability) of killing; pacifism is the refusal to take up arms and use violence as a solution under any circumstances whatsoever. Therefore, Daniel Jackson is not a pacifist, and never has been.

Let's back up that statement with canonical proof, shall we? I'm going to go back and cover further events in order, but let's start with the ultimate pacifists of the Stargate universe: the Nox.

When the Nox first meet SG-1, they're in the middle of a failed ambush against Apophis and several Jaffa. Daniel, Jack, and Sam are all dead, as is Shak'l; Teal'c is seconds away from execution. The Nox whisk Teal'c out of harm's way, retrieve the dead bodies, and bring everyone back to life.

I'm going to skip over the charm of the scenes when Daniel et al first wake up and they first try to communicate with their saviors, even though I adore Lya and am quite fond of the others, even Anateus. Instead, I want to focus on the stark differences between Daniel's attitude in this episode and the attitudes of the Nox.

Daniel is the one who not only proposes, but insists on setting up the ambush against Apophis. The ambush's intention is to kill the Jaffa and tranq Apophis in the confusion, bringing him back to Earth for questioning.

The Nox revive SG-1 and Shak'l, but they take away their weapons. Violence of any kind will not be permitted. "Your weapons are gone." (The Nox miss Shak'l's concealed dagger, though, as well as a single tranquilizer dart that Jack somehow manages to retrieve .)

Jack and Daniel try to explain why they ambushed Apophis; as Lya points out, from the POV of the Nox, it was SG-1 who initiated hostilities. We get some highly entertaining babbling, as the best both of them can do is say that Apophis is "…bad." But the Nox will only state that they will take SG-1 to "their doorway," aka the Stargate, so that the nasty violent young people will go away and "take your ways with you."

SG-1 tries to explain that they don't want to leave, because the Nox now need protection from Apophis. Anateus turns down Daniel's attempts at diplomacy, informs them that no other Nox wants to talk to them, and walks away.

(Much as I love the Nox, they really do have the same degree of smug superiority that the Tollan do. They're just advanced enough that they can get away with it.)

Lya shows them their "brother" – Shak'l. The Nox are pleased to hear that Shak'l's symbiote will heal him, even though SG-1 tries to explain the danger Shak'l poses to them. Anateus states flatly, "There will be no more death." As far as the Nox are concerned, violence is not permitted under any circumstances at all.

"How do you defend yourselves?"

"We don't."

When SG-1 withdraws to quietly discuss the problem of Shak'l, Daniel says, "And we can't kill him either." The others look at him incredulously, and he hastily adds, "I wasn't considering it, I was just stating a fact." That is Daniel, of course. Not being a pacifist does not automatically make a person bloodthirsty and ruthless.

Again, as Jack and Sam and Daniel fashion a bow and arrow, Daniel is unsure that weapons will help any longer: "You guys just don't want to give up, do you?" "That's what happens when you spend half your life in Special Forces." However, while it's not Daniel's idea, he continues to smooth out the arrow and doesn't seem to disagree. This is unlike the Nox, who refuse violence even as self-defense.

Consider the exchange between Jack and Nefreyu, after Nefreyu has brightly suggested that Jack's bow and arrow would be better suited for knocking fruit off high branches:

"Why do you want to fight them?"

"I don't want to."

"Then don't."

"It's not that simple. Look, I believe in peace, just like you, I do."

"Then why do you fight?"

"Because our enemy gives us no option. Sometimes turning the other cheek just doesn't work."

Nefreyu's proposal: "I'll learn to understand them better."

A fenri shows up and interrupts the discussion, as Jack tries to shoot at it to protect Nefreyu. Anateus materializes and demands that Jack not "teach Nefreyu your ways." During the ensuing argument, when Jack explains he was trying to defend Nefreyu from the attacking fenri, Jack says, "I was trying to protect the boy."

Anateus counters, "Protect his body while poisoning his mind?" Again, as far as the Nox concerned, even violence in defense of someone helpless is not to be sanctioned.

SG-1 discuss the various things they've discovered, including the Nox's advanced ages and the fact that the power of invisibility lies within the Nox and not the fenri. Anataeus appears and tells them they "cannot be trusted with your enemy." Even when Daniel proposes that the Nox permit them to simply take Shak'l into protective custody, in order to protect the Nox from being discovered by Apophis, Anateus will only agree to this if Shak'l himself approves. So it's clear that it's not only death or lesser violence that the Nox will not tolerate, but also any kind of coercion.

After Shak'l's escape and report to Apophis, Apophis deliberately kills Nefreyu in order to prompt the Nox into undergoing the "Ritual of Life" and losing their protective invisibility. The team begs the Nox to give them their weapons, so they can protect them when they are vulnerable.

Anateus replies flatly, "There will be no killing."

Jack stalks away, ignoring Daniel's plea of, "Jack!" Daniel turns back to the Nox and makes a last appeal: "Please, we're just trying to help." Here is the perfect contrast: the Nox unwilling to use force to defend themselves, while Daniel begs for permission to do just that.

"Goodbye, Daniel."

Daniel, with no choice, leaves – and discovers that Jack only intended to set up a defense perimeter from a location where he hopes the Nox won't interfere.

We do see that it's not that the Nox are deliberately obtuse about danger. Lya suggests that they take Nefreyu "to the others," where they would presumably be strength in numbers – or she might have meant within the floating city. In any case, Anateus points out that "it would take too long," and they have to perform the ritual immediately.

The team sets up an ambush to protect the Nox; Sam is covered with leaves, and Teal'c holds a length of log and hides behind a tree, as does Daniel (without the log). Jack has his arrow with the single dart the Nox failed to confiscate.

The attack begins. Teal'c takes down one Jaffa; Sam temporarily downs a second; and Teal'c tosses the staff weapon to Daniel. Please consider: at this point, Daniel is holding the most deadly weapon. I can easily postulate that Teal'c chose to give it to Daniel, because he would be least effective at hand-to-hand fighting; but the fact remains that Daniel took that staff weapon and proceeded to use it without hesitation. Sam is thrown off by the Jaffa she is fighting, and Daniel takes aim and kills him. (And I love the expression on his face during that scene!)

Confrontation with Apophis and Jack:

"Fool! I will kill you!"

"What, again?"

Jack aims. And fires. And Apophis disappears. Presumably, the Jaffa that Daniel killed does as well; the Nox must have not finished their ritual in time to prevent the killing shot, but they most likely bring him back to life afterwards.

"No! They'll be back! They won't spare you!"

No answer. The Nox will not condone violence and force, even for their own survival.

So SG-1 returns to where the Gate should be, and meet Anateus and Nefreyu. They learn that Apophis has already been "sent through the Doorway," as have SG-1's weapons, where they presumably splatted against the iris. When Anateus tells them that the Nox will bury the Gate, Jack warns them that the Goa'uld will return in ships.

"You fear for us."

"Yes."

"Why?"

Teal'c answers, "It is our way that the strong defend the weak." Jack adds, "We're afraid for you."

Only then does Anateus show them the Nox's floating city, and with it, the understanding that the Nox have nothing to worry about.

"Maybe one day you will learn that your way is not the only way."

"Why didn't they tell us about this before?"

"I think in their own way they did."

"…The very young do not always do as they are are told."

So there we have it. Daniel meets the ultimate pacifists, but fails to meet their standards, because Daniel isn't a pacifist.

We will meet the Nox again, of course, and discover that Lya definitely has a soft spot for our Daniel (the woman has good taste). But Daniel's continual efforts to seek a peaceful solution doesn't change the fact that he will, in fact, use violence when necessary… and will not collapse in moral crisis when doing so.

Let's look at a few more examples of Daniel's willingness to kill, or to bear arms, including some incidents when the choice was not based on the urgency of mortal peril:

Stargate the Movie. Daniel fires the staff weapon (and misses) in an attempt to kill Ra; he kills one of Ra's guards with a pistol, and Sha'uri's killer with a staff weapon; and, together with Jack, rings the nuclear bomb onto Ra's ship, killing both Ra and the children servants who were on board the ship at the time.

COTG. While it is not explicit, it it certainly implicit that Daniel is the one who organized Skaara and the boys into a militia to guard the Stargate on a round-the-clock basis. ("Thirty-six hours a day." Hee!)

Bloodlines. In one of the most powerful character moments for Daniel of the season, Daniel takes Sam's automatic weapon (M-5?) and deliberately shatters the holding tank for the infant symbiotes, thereby killing all of them. Aside from a sidelong glance at a shocked Sam, he does not seem particularly troubled by his actions; in fact, only minutes later, he is calmly discussing the symbiote they have in the thermos, wondering if it needs to be fed.

Within the Serpent's Grasp/Serpent's Lair. Daniel is absolutely frantic to stop the attack on Earth before it's too late. He has no problem shooting and killing numerous Jaffa during the events on the mothership; just before they're captured, when Jack is ready to detonate the C4, Daniel interrupts him for what Jack thinks is an argument, but is actually Daniel's desire to plant a final charge where it might do the most good. And, of course, "I'll stay and watch your back." 'Nuff said there.

Need. I'm citing this one to be fair, not because it fits the pattern; if anything, this offers proof that Daniel does not look at weapons as the first resort. Because when Daniel went into that ecstasy of violence and threw Janet across the room, and pummeled his guard into unconsciousness, and bolted into that storeroom, and fought Jack, and then pointed that gun at his best friend – well, I always interpreted that scene to mean it was the horrified realization of what he almost did that finally snapped Daniel out of it. I hope I've made it clear that I'm not objecting to Daniel's status as the peacemaker and peace advocate; I'm protesting the false label of pacifist.

Serpent's Song. If I had to pick a single episode from the early seasons to define Daniel, it would be a toss-up between Torment of Tantalus and this one. We witness the incredible moral courage of a man willing to ignore the face of his most hated enemy to give last rites to the host; but this is also the same man who taunted Apophis about the baby he delivered on Abydos and said, with quiet but utter conviction, "If you don't tell me where she is, I'll kill you right here."

Apophis didn't believe him. Some people might agree with Apophis; I don't. I think that if Sam hadn't interrupted right then, Daniel would have done something seriously drastic… and gotten into a lot of trouble, so maybe it's just as well.

Show and Tell. When Jack is shot by a Reetou in the infirmary, Daniel scoops up his fallen weapon – despite the presence of other soldiers in the room – and kills the last Reetou left on the base before it can attack anyone else.

Deadman's Switch. After Jack shoot Boch with the zat, it's Daniel who thinks to take Boch's weapon back with them to the ship.

Window of Opportunity. "What kind of archeologist carries a weapon?"

"Uh, I do!"

"…Bad example."

Absolute Power. Included for the sake of completion. As discussed some time back, Absolute Power can't really be used as an accurate source of canon. While it's a glimpse of Dark Daniel, it's a glimpse of Dark Daniel According to Shifu, which is not necessarily the way Daniel would truly turn dark. So while that Daniel was responsible for Teal'c's death – not to mention the little minor detail of wiping an entire city off the planet – it doesn't really lend anything to the discussion here.

Proving Ground. Daniel doesn't seem to have any problems with training recruits, including that fun little bit of grandstanding when he "shoots" all four of them at once.

ETA: Thanks, redbyrd_sgfic, for pointing out that I'd left out Beast of Burden. I actually had it written up already, but it was accidently removed from the final post. Much obliged! :)

Beast of Burden. This is one of the most fascinating S5 episodes. It hits all the right spots, with teamy goodness and moral ambiguity and continuity and characterization. Most importantly, it's probably the point at which Jack and Daniel's respect for one another reached its most adult, mutual level. Each one expected the other to smoothly fit the role that was needed, and they understood each other's POVs, until we finally get to that aching exchange:

Jack: "I don't think we're gonna talk our way out of this one."

Daniel: "Well, for once I'm not asking you to."

They break free, witness Chaka kill Burok… and Daniel hands Chaka the zat. In essence, he is giving his blessing to Chaka's revolution, asking only that he try to avoid lethal force if possible. But he is approving the use of force in order to free the other Unas from slavery… and that is not the act of a pacifist.

Summit/Last Stand. Daniel was ready to assassinate an entire group of System Lords. Can I just say that again? Assassinate. Now, I would personally agree with a lot of people who suggest that Daniel had lost a large part of himself by that point, which only continues throughout the rest of the season and climaxes with Reece in Menace and "I'm ready to go with you" in Meridian; but the point is that Daniel was ready and willing to assassinate people, including the hosts.

Conclusion: Daniel has never been a pacifist. Encouraging peace and diplomatic options is not the same as pacifism. Authors will please note the difference.

So, Daniel-as-pacifist is pretty much debunked. How about the other fanon trope that often goes hand-in-hand with that?

Daniel, in the early seasons, is incapable of handling a weapon competently.

Dr. Daniel Jackson is a civilian. In some ways, that defines him, and it's one of his greatest advantages. He can argue, he can circumvent the rules,and he's not tied down to the necessity of obeying a superior officer, because he doesn't have one. There's an inherent charm in the way we see, sometimes, some of the smaller differences that emphasize Daniel's non-military status.

In the first two seasons, of course, we have long-haired Daniel, which will always be my first love. :) He often slouches in comparison to Jack's ramrod straight posture; this is most obvious in The Fifth Race, right before Jack goes through the Stargate to get his brain vacuumed by the Asgard.  In the closing scene of Bloodlines, Sam and Jack stand, framed at the Stargate, saluting Bra'tac to show their respect; Daniel, on the other hand, waves. Then there's the humor of Daniel, after nearly two years, still finding it easier to respond to Jack's hand signals in Show and Tell by pantomiming with his fingers and mouthing, "There are people in there!" Poor Jack gives up, mouths, "I know!" back, and counts down to three on his fingers in a decidedly un-military fashion. My favorite little subtlety, though, is in Season Four's Chain Reaction, when General Bauer first appears. Everyone is standing at parade attention, looking straight ahead with their hands at their sides; Teal'c has his hands behind in his back, in his usual respectful pose; and Daniel? Well, when he finally finishes straightening his cuffs, he slouches in place with his hands stuck into his pockets.

Being a civilian, though, does not mean that he doesn't know how to handle a pistol or other weapons; it only means that he's starting out with the handicap of lesser training. Even at the very beginning, though, there are clear signs that Daniel is comfortable with handling a weapon.

[One could easily suggest that Daniel learned to handle small arms on digs; he might have needed to shoot snakes, for example, when he was in the Yucatan (Brief Candle), or frighten off poachers or artifact thieves. But the point of this discussion isn't how or why Daniel learned to handle weaponry; the point is to show that he does know how.]

Once we get into later seasons, Daniel's proficiency with weapons is unquestioned; after all, he's been at it for a while at that point. Certainly, once we reach the season opener of S5, no one even seems to blink at his handling of a P-90 and seamless participation in the shoot, retreat, reload loop that gets SG-1 back to Jacob in time to escape the crashing mothership. But even a quick analysis of several earlier season episodes shows that while Daniel's skills and qualifications might not have been on the same level as trained Air Force officers, he didn't seem to have any trouble using the weapons he did have.

Stargate the Movie. Daniel seems to have been sent through the Stargate unarmed (other than his Fifth Avenue bars, of course). When they return from Nagada and discover Ra's ship on top of the pyramid, Brown hands Daniel a pistol; and when Brown is killed and Kalwasky knocked out, Jack hustles Daniel over to the Stargate and orders him to "stay right here and shoot anything that comes down that ramp… Just cover me." The rings activate; Daniel aims the pistol; and three of Ra's soldiers appear. Daniel's hand is shaking, but he doesn't surrender until Jack says, very quietly, "Put it down, Jackson."

The first time we see Daniel actually using a weapon is during the formal execution scene, when he has been ordered by Ra to kill Jack and the others. He aims the staff weapon, primes it – and turns and fires at Ra.

And misses.

Surely that's proof that Daniel handles weapons poorly? You might think so; except that a day later, when he, Shau'ri, and Jack are fighting in the temple in their effort to get to the Stargate and the nuclear bomb, we see Daniel using a pistol without hesitation, and using it well, when he kills one of Ra's soldiers (they weren't "Jaffa" yet, back then). Later, when Sha'uri tries to use her own pistol and gets killed, it's Daniel who aims a staff weapon and smoothly takes out the one that killed her.

I would suggest that movie canon gives us a Daniel who has handled small arms before. He clearly has no trouble using a pistol, even one-handed. (Sha'uri, a true amateur, tries to aim with both hands, and fails.) He misses the first time he tries to use a staff weapon, but has no trouble aiming on a second occasion. That shows that it was inexperience with the staff weapon, not inexperience with weaponry in general, that caused him to miss.

The Nox. Daniel hasn't had much experience with the staff weapon at that point, although he might have gotten some practice back on Abydos, with some of the weapons left behind by Ra's soldiers. Yet he has no trouble aiming precisely and killing a Jaffa only a staff weapon's length away from Sam.

Seth. When the brainwashed Jack and Daniel are directed to several unassembled weapons by Seth, Daniel gets right to work and clearly knows what he's doing.

Forever in a Day. Daniel, running across a field, sees Ammonet emerge from a tent. A Jaffa appears beside her. Without hesitation, Daniel fires his pistol multiple times and kills a Jaffa that is standing a few feet away from his wife. His confidence in his weapons skills must have been extremely high for him to risk Sha're's life in the case of even a near miss.

Conclusion: While Daniel is certainly not as expert as Sam or Jack in handling weapons in the early seasons, he is confident with small arms and is not incompetent in the field.

My personal fanon opinion? There's incident after incident in canon where Daniel ignores the military POV and seeks a diplomatic, peaceful solution to a conflict. No one is trying to suggest otherwise. It's an essential part of his nature, and one of the best foils on the show – Daniel's desire to find that "other way" and the contrasts and collisions with the increasingly military emphasis of the SGC. On the other hand, peace advocacy is not the same as pacifism. Stories that highlight Daniel reluctantly shooting some misguided native and then spiraling into a kind of mental breakdown over having taken an innocent life – usually because Jack's life, or Sam's or Teal'c's, was at stake, not because he was killing out of capriciousness – make me cringe. It's lazy writing, because it looks only at the surface and stops there, without understanding the complexities of Daniel's personality. And it's so out-of-character that I feel like I'm reading about some other person who just happens to share the same name as the guy on SG-1.

Equally irritating are fanfics that emphasize Daniel's ineptitude. Daniel may not have gone through the same intense weapons training as the others, and his non-military way of thinking is always entertaining, but he has never been helpless with a weapon, even at the very beginning. Might this attempt to belittle his skills be part of the efforts of many authors to make him more child-like? Whether or not that's the motivation, stories about how much he hates guns, or how he can never figure out how to load his pistol, do not reflect canon at all; it's merely fanon run rampant, and very, very annoying.

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

Comments

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

A masterly analysis, as usual! This one's one of my pet peeves, too. Honestly, the reason armies switched from arrows to guns to begin with is you can teach any high-school kid how to use one in six weeks. Anybody who thinks Daniel lacks either the skill or will to use a gun has obviously been watching Stargate in some alternate universe.

Um other eps with Daniel armed:
Rules of Engagement- Daniel crawls on his stomach with his weapon out, taking cover with his team like a pro.

The Curse- Daniel's got a tranquilizer gun- Sam's got a pistol. They're trying to capture (they think) a Goauld in Stephen Raynor (and presumably save Raynor), but would he risk being the only one with a nonlethal weapon if he wasn't a good shot? Janet's military- if she was a better shot, I'd expect her to have the tranquilizer gun. (Was she armed at all in that ep?)

Beast of Burden- Daniel gives his zat to Chaka. Arguing for peace while accepting the necessity of war?

I won't go into S7 and beyond- as you point out, nobody thinks Daniel's a pacificist by that point!

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Yes, both Janet and Sam had 9 mm Berettas in the Curse. Osiris put the whammy on them before either could fire.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

There's another issue that I think comes into play here. It's first contact.

Time and time again, if baddies have the drop on our heroes, Daniel is usually the one unarmed. Because of his position and role on the team as linguist/archeo/antropologist and essentially diplomat, he doesn't carry a rifle unless it's a planned attack mission from the get go. Therefore, while the other 3 have weapons at ready, Daniel has his holstered sidearm. And his first instinct is to use the "weapon" of his tongue and talk things out rather than playing quick draw. (Of course the reasons for that are where interpretation comes into play--I think he). So while the others are at a standoff (think of the teaser of Need, the trap of Aris Boch, limping along in Hathor's caves,...and I'm blanking out on more, but it's common).

Anyway, I think because Daniel doesn't draw his weapon when they're surrounded brings a false impression he's a pacifist. My interpretation is: He's not a quick draw when surprised, and relies on his teammates to have that part covered.

And yes, when he has a weapon unholstered, Daniel is a very good shot. Clumsy (but not helpless) in hand to hand. But I'd trust his aim any day.

Whenever I see "Daniel is a pacifist", I always think of a quote by katie_m. "Daniel is an idealist, and thus sometimes dangerous." (or something like that.

[nomadicwriter]

"Daniel is an idealist, and thus sometimes dangerous."

I totally agree with. I think that Daniel is, in his own way, much more dangerous than any of his teammates... because he's a lot more convinced of his own righteousness.

Jack is certainly ready to attack or kill on less provocation than Daniel, but I also think that Jack is under no illusion that he's objectively a good man or that his actions are The Right Thing To Do. (If anything, I think he has an overly cynical view of himself - although I doubt he has quite the self-esteem crisis a lot of fanfic would have you believe). Jack will do things that he obviously considers to be wrong because he believes that they're also necessary.

That's what fascinates me most about the Jack-Daniel conflict in canon (and what a large number of fanfic writers totally miss when they turn it into this black-and-white thing of: "Daniel is good and right and all things lovely, and Jack is a big old meanie who just Doesn't Understand.") It's not a conflict of ideals. I think Jack and Daniel have near-identical views on what constitutes right and wrong. Where they differ is that Daniel won't go against his ideals even if keeping to them risks innocent lives, whereas Jack won't stand by and let people be killed solely to keep his own hands clean. And that's why they complement each other so well - sometimes Daniel provides the alternative solution so Jack doesn't have to take his last resort (Scorched Earth), and sometimes Jack's there to take that last resort when Daniel's refusal to consider it is about to end in disaster (Menace).

And circling back towards the point... yeah, that determination to only do what he considers right is what makes Daniel dangerous in my eyes. It might take a lot of provocation to get him to the point where he considers killing to be the right course of action to take, but once he's there, he does it very coldly and without any hesitation or apparent guilt/doubt afterwards. (As in the machine-gun scene in Bloodlines.) When Daniel does shoot to kill, he's utterly convinced that whoever he's shooting deserves to die. I suspect that, for all his fanon status as angst-ridden pacifist, Daniel loses far less sleep than anyone else on SG-1 over the lives that he's ended.

And also, uh, hi. *Waves at sg_fignewton* I followed you home from stargateficrec because I was so happy to see someone enthusiastically reccing gen fic.

[shutthef-up.livejournal.com]

Excellent summation debunking the fanon tropes of pacifist and inept Daniel.

I will add one small observation. In early seasons, Daniel's tac vest and holster frequently weren't properly fastened and 'locked down'. His sidearm frequently flopped against his leg. And I do believe this was an active choice on either the part of the actor or directors. But it was pretty consistent.

I always sort of 'read' that as Daniel having a certain disregard for weapons. He wasn't opposed to them, nor did he particularly mind carrying one, but he didn't feel the same need as the military members to keep it at the ready.

His reload in Forever In a Day was a bit clumsy, but capable. Very typical for someone who's practiced doing it, but never had to do it under fire.

I've always felt that Daniel was quite capable with weapons, even from the start. Sometimes a bit clumsy, as he'd never been drilled like the military members, but pretty much as accurate as anyone else.

I think some fans have some investment in portraying Daniel as overly young, naive and idealistic. Yes, he's an idealist, but he's also pragmatic.

I find the progression of his skills over the years pretty realistic.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Reading this I keep remembering the awesome bit in "The Sentinal" where the other Colonel isn't happy with an archaeologist protecting them and Daniel holds up his knife and wise-asses "I forget, which end do the bullets go in?" - Daniel obviously is fully aware and confident of his ability with weapons.

I don't think I've ever run across claims of Daniel being a pacifist but I would believe plenty are out there and I definitely agree with you - Daniel would prefer peace to war, prefer to talk over use his weapon, but he is a far, far cry from a pacifist.

I do wonder though how his actions towards shooting at Goa'uld compare to shooting at not-quite-enemies. He hates the Goa'uld, no question, and even though he seems to be more concerned for the hosts than the rest of SG1, he's perfectly willing to mow down Jaffa and Goa'uld if necessary. But what about humans on other planets who SG-1 runs up against but may not be precisely evil? I could see Daniel being less eager to shoot them - but I can't think of any shining examples right now (I can't remember if he fires a gun at the humans who keep Unas's as slaves).

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

That's a really interesting comparison between Jack and Daniel.

It made me think - in some ways Daniel looks at the world from the perspective of an idealist and Jack as a realist - Daniel does things (or tries) because he thinks they are the right thing to do while Jack does them because he thinks they are necessary - what he has to do. This doesn't mean Jack doesn't have an internal idealist who wants to do the right thing or Daniel doesn't have an internal realist who can understand that sometimes what is necessary and what is right isn't the same, but it is a difference in how they approach their situations and justify their actions.

It's very visible in "Menace" - we don't really know whether Jack or Daniel was right. We don't know if Reece had lost control of the replicators or was getting them to stop. Daniel did what he *knew* was right - talked to Reece, offered her his humanity and Jack did what he *had* to do - kill Reece because he saw her as threatening his friend, his people, his planet. Both of them were right but it put them at diametrically opposing positions and drove a wall between them.

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[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

One of my favorite scenes is in "Chimera" where we get Daniel and Teal'c working out (yes, could stop there, but it gets better). And Teal'c starts talking about dreams--and then he goes on to tell Danile that, given all Daniel's gone through, Teal'c is amazed Daniel can sleep. Which Daniel finds disturbing on so many levels--an intersting comment right there.

But I think that says a lot about what Daniel looses sleep over, and there's not a lot of nightmares about shooting people or things he's decided are wrong or bad or about to kill someone he cares about. I do think he will angst about if the right to make those kind of decisions--and I do think he'd rather have time to really think things through first. But Daniel's never been one to opt out or back down from any fight. He's also a dedicated tool user (if there's no gun, he will pick up anything with with he can hit someone).

To me, one of the more interesting things is that Daniel doesn't like to label himself, or others. Pacifist is a label. I can't see how Daniel would think of that as anything but a box, which might not be appropriate in some circumstances.

Seems a pacificist, too, would have a really hard time working for and with the military. (And Daniel, in the movie, had no problem with sending a nuke up to kill Ra--and more than a few kids. But he saw the greater need there.)

[niamaea.livejournal.com]

Another excellent analysis!

I think you nailed it, wondering if it's an issue of keeping Daniel child-like. I think that may actually be my reigning champion Thing I Despite Seeing In Fic. There's a veeeery weird tendency I've noticed, particularly in very early season fic, to characterize Daniel as this poor wilting flower, this flickering candle of innocence and righteousness, this pillar of moral decency and fairness to the universe at large, etc etc etc with the poetry. 'Danny' is a pacifist, who couldn't hit the a semi-truck from ten feet away, who is pure and gentle, with flowing blond (?) hair and a frail stature (?!) and limpid blue eyes prone to filling over with tears (...) and blah blah blah blah. It's infantilizing and frankly bizarre.

Not to mention the whole team gets in on it, and monologue at length about how they must protect this precious angel. Jack is some weird amalgamation between father and brother (and this is somehow more pronounced in slash fics, why oh WHY?), Sam is the caring big sister (who is nevertheless canonically younger), and Teal'c is the stalwart guardian ready to throw himself on the sword at the slightest provocation by the big mean universe (which...has slightly more basis, but not because Daniel is incapable). Not to mention the commissary staff, who worship him and are apparently dedicated to feeding up this skinny child, Janet, the nurses, and Hammond, who practically adopts lost little Danny. (Who by the way was abused in each and every one of his forty-seven foster homes. And was a virgin when he married Sha're.)

A lot of the things that you've debunked on your journal - this whole post, the Danny issue, Daniel doesn't remember to eat or sleep - seem to relate to this weird trope of making a 30-something year old man unable to tie his own shoes without assistance. I just don't get it.

Ahem. So. This ranting incoherently complete, I now return you to your scheduled journal.

[niamaea.livejournal.com]

Despise. "Things I despise..." I'm sure there are other errors in there, but that's the one that grabbed me.

P.S. Can you tell I'm glad you mentioned this topic? O:-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Beast of Burden- Daniel gives his zat to Chaka. Arguing for peace while accepting the necessity of war?

Thank you for mentioning this! You'll see that I edited the post above. BoB was most definitely on my list - I'd even written it up before! - and it somehow didn't make it into the final edit. It's back now, so it's all good. :)

I do agree with the other eps you cite, although I didn't want to go through the entire show and mention every time Daniel actually holds a gun. :) RoE is a good point, though, as is Touchstone, when no one seems to think twice about letting their civilian archeologist take part in a military operation onworld where his usual skills were not exactly required.

Anybody who thinks Daniel lacks either the skill or will to use a gun has obviously been watching Stargate in some alternate universe.

Yeah, well, from the looks of it, a lot of fanfic authors are accidently tuning in to that alternate reality's shows.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes, you're right, of course. The role that Daniel plays means that his weapon isn't drawn, and he's still trying to talk while the other members of his team are already aiming. But that doesn't mean that when his weapon is drawn, he doesn't know how to use it.

"Daniel is an idealist, and thus sometimes dangerous."

Lovely, and oh so true. It's why Dark Daniel is such a frightening prospect. A man who is doing something he knows is wrong will reach some kind of limit and apply the brakes. A man who fervently believes that his cause is just and right? He's capable of destroying the whole world, because he's doing it for an ideal.

Heaven help the universe if Daniel ever becomes convinced that it needs to be destroyed.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I followed you home

Awwww. Do I get to keep you? :) Welcome to the party, and thanks for your lovely icons while I'm at it!

I like what you say about Jack and Daniel, and how easy it is for lazier authors to slip into the Daniel=good/Jack=meanie mistake. Especially with your mention of Menace, which deserves a long, loving analysis all of its own. Really, I don't trust the writers enough to believe that they did it deliberately, but Daniel's character arc in the 4th and 5th seasons made it so believable that he was ready to go with Oma.

Daniel loses far less sleep than anyone else on SG-1 over the lives that he's ended.

Oh yeah. Shannon mentions something similar in her post below. He might not much like getting there, but once Daniel reaches that point? The brakes are off, the safety catch is released, and everybody had better duck.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, I like that: Daniel deals with his inner realist, while Jack copes with his inner idealist. But they both have both of them. Yes, that puts it quite neatly.

And Menace! Such a painful ep for Daniel, where he tries to let idealism triumph and discovers that it doesn't always work that way.

Interesting that you suggest it "drove a wall between them," where I saw the two of them as utterly vulnerable in that closing scene, with no walls left, even the ones they needed. Like I said, it really does deserve a long, thoughtful essay. One day... :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I never noticed Daniel having his sidearm flop against his leg, although I've certainly read enough references to it in fics. Must I go back and rewatch early episodes to take note? Oh, the humanity! :)

I think some fans have some investment in portraying Daniel as overly young, naive and idealistic.

That certainly seems to be the case; I just don't understand why. What reason could these authors have for wanting Daniel reduced to something less than a capable adult? Is it to make him The Girl(tm)? To have someone they feel comfortable whumping and then comforting? It doesn't make sense to me.

I also find his skills progression realistic, although part of me misses the days when Daniel didn't go striding up the ramp, armed with P-90 to match the others. He looks like just another soldier now, and he's ever so much more. Lucky for us. :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Funny you should mention The Sentinel. I actually considered including it, but decided the quote from WoO served the purpose well enough. :) The Sentinel mostly bored me, but I have several snippets of it saved on my hard drive, under the name "Daniel defies expectations" - the lovely exchange you mention, of course, and his breaking the musical code, and his deciphering enough words on the pillar (intelligently, too - not that he could magically read it, but that he was able to compare it to something he'd seen before). In term of Daniel's character, that storyline didn't belong in S5; it should have been earlier, S3 or even S2. NID sneering aside, most people know, by the end of S5, just what Daniel can do.

don't think I've ever run across claims of Daniel being a pacifist

Congratulations, then, on cleverly avoiding a whole slew of really annoying fics! :)

I do wonder though how his actions towards shooting at Goa'uld compare to shooting at not-quite-enemies.

I actually thought I covered this in the post, as that's a favorite trope for the fanon - Daniel is forced to kill natives, who are guilty of nothing more than panicking and thinking SG-1 are the bad guys, in order to save Jack/Sam/Teal'c from being stabbed/gutted/burned at the stake. The rest of the fic is usually full of wallowing angst, as Daniel agonizes at having been forced to slaughter the poor natives. There's no canon for this, though, because there is no comparable incident on the show.

The truth is that our very first exposure to human beings as bad guys is New Ground in late S3, when Teal'c gets blinded and the rest of SG-1 gets stuffed into little electrified boxes by the Bedrosians while they're tortured so that they'll confess that they're Optrican spies. And I do think that a large part of Daniel's distress in that episode was from being tortured by human beings, not Go'auld or Jaffa; it would have shaken a large part of his worldview.

So, Daniel in conflict with humans? Well, there's Rules of Engagement, I suppose. And New Ground. And The Other Side. And then we jump ahead to Evolution and Icon... It really is a rare thing. Would Daniel shoot as readily at a human being rather than a Goa'uld or Jaffa? Well, he didn't seem to have any trouble hitting one of the Other Side guys over the head with what looked like a golf club, did he? :)

Re: Labels

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I quite like this: But I think that says a lot about what Daniel looses sleep over, and there's not a lot of nightmares about shooting people or things he's decided are wrong or bad or about to kill someone he cares about. Because I think you're right. His nightmares are mostly about what-might-have-beens or I-should-haves, not about I-did-thats. "I should have left the Stargate buried," not "I shouldn't have nuked Ra." Or, as Teal'c suggests, "I wish I could save Sara," not "I almost poisoned her back in S5! How could I do such a thing?"

He's also a dedicated tool user (if there's no gun, he will pick up anything with with he can hit someone). Heh. Other than the time when he picked up the pseudo-golf club and whacked someone with it in The Other Side, when do we see Daniel improvising a weapon?

And, yes, Daniel wouldn't approve of labels. Humans are ever so much too complex for that. Especially our Daniel! :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

You've hit just about every irritating fanon trope there, haven't you? And I will get to some more of those in the future - they're definitely on the list!

Sam is the caring big sister (who is nevertheless canonically younger)

Are you sure about this? Because I'm pretty certain that Daniel is a couple of years younger than she is. I know there's a contradiction between her printed birthday in Entity and reference to her birthstone in Ascension, but the year? Although I have to say that any reference to Daniel as a "young man" makes me grit my teeth. He's thirty-two in S1. A "young man" is someone in his early twenties. I'll grant you that he looks young, but it baffles me as much as it does you: why would a fanfic author want to take someone capable and reduce them to the status of a child? How long do they think a person like that would last on the front lines?

Ranting not very incoherent, I assure you. And much enjoyed. :)

[niamaea.livejournal.com]

Oh my goodness, 4:30 in the morning, why am I still awake? Ah, college.

Yeah, the month is problematic - but doesn't the file from Entity lists her as being born in '68, when Daniel would have been three-ish? She'd be twenty-nine in S1. I think.

And as for Dannykins...well, I dunno, judging by some of the paper-cut turned septic infection fics I've seen, his immune system seems to be irreparably compromised and he should probably move somewhere very quiet and sterile right away. Which is not to say I haven't seen Danny-whumping done very effectively. But my goodness. Get the man some vitamin C. Another one for my list. : )

[shutthef-up.livejournal.com]

I never noticed Daniel having his sidearm flop against his leg, although I've certainly read enough references to it in fics. Must I go back and rewatch early episodes to take note? Oh, the humanity! :)

Yes, I live to torture you ;) If it were the weekend, I'd make a list for you. For starters, though, you can give the one with the Naked White Aliens a shot. While he drags the straps of his tac vest in the dust later in the ep, even early on, his waist belt is undone (and it is frequently, in many early eps). The holster is attached to the wide waist belt of the tac vest, so when it's unclipped, the whole deal just kinda flops around. So basically, if his tac vest is unzipped and unsnapped, the holster's going to be flopping around. Which to me would be uncomfortable as hell and requires him to put his hand down to steady it if he runs. And he does.

He's pretty strapped up tight for the S1 ender/cliffhanger, but I'm convinced that he was assisted in gearing up for that :) (Hey, Jack would inspect every member of his team to make sure they were properly geared up). What I've seen is when they're on an ostensibly unthreatening planet, Daniel's letting everything flap. So that at least has basis in canon.

I just don't understand why.

Well, though these may be fightin' words, I've mostly seen it in slash fic, especially hurt/comfort slash fics. Daniel is a wide-eyed, innocent waif (yes, sort of The Girl) who needs Jack's protection and guidance. Alternatively, he's the abused Rent Boy, who worldly-wise in some respects, is still an idealist deep inside and uses sex to seduce Jack into being his Daddy. And because he's Purty, he can't also be capable. Personally, I find pretty yet deadly sort of a sexy combination.

What annoys me about much slash set in early seasons is that the whole dynamic seems off to me. The vast majority of gay men are attracted to men because they're men, not girls disguised as men. Sure there are gay men who fit that stereotype, but like all stereotypes, largely wrong. Since I've known a fair number of gay men in my lifetime, I find the slash take on Jack/Daniel in much fic (especially early-series fic) very unrealistic and cliche. But I've decided that slashfic is an animal unto itself. It's a genre written mostly by and for women, so reality isn't terribly germain.

But that's a whole 'nother topic and not what we're exploring here at all.

I also find his skills progression realistic, although part of me misses the days when Daniel didn't go striding up the ramp, armed with P-90 to match the others

I know, I feel much the same way. But *damn*, I just watched Avatar again last night and I just have a thing with Daniel being all serious and pointing guns unwaveringly. I miss young, long-haired Daniel, but I find older, wiser and more capable Daniel sexy as hell. Young Daniel was sexy too, but in a different way.

Re: Labels

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

Other than the time when he picked up the pseudo-golf club and whacked someone with it in The Other Side, when do we see Daniel improvising a weapon?

Well, the dart incident you've already mentioned from 'The Curse'. The rock he decided not to hit Chaka with in 'The First Ones'. A large pottery vase in 'It's Good to Be King'. Another rock (which he again doesn't use) in Evolution 2. I'm sure there are more.

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

See I find the idea that Daniel is sometimes *taken* for younger than he is rife with opportunities for humor (so long as it's clear that he really isn't that young!). But maybe that's just me.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Congratulations, then, on cleverly avoiding a whole slew of really annoying fics! :)
It probably helps that 1) I only started watching the show in November 2) only started reading fic in January and 3) most of what I've read has been from your recs (and a few others over at stargateficrec). An easy way to avoid the annoying stuff. Not that I haven't encountered a few that ping me funny.

There's no canon for this, though, because there is no comparable incident on the show.
Which is probably why it didn't feel to me like you covered it. Except for in "Beast of Burden," where I don't remember Daniel actually killing anyone himself, all your examples are of Daniel killing Goa'uld, Jaffa, Reetou, etc. Though now I'm having a hard time thinking of times any of them really had to mow down villagers. I guess that's a moral ground the show itself doesn't want to think about. Easier to make good and evil black and white.

Oh, "New Ground." I love that episode. Jack-in-a-box. And Daniel. I love, love how much Daniel pouts when he's being captured or interrograted ("New Ground" was a prime example, but there are many). He's just so resentful, so stubborn about it.

But clubbing someone over a head wouldn't kill them. Neither would zatting them once. So I think he'd have an easier time dealing with that - poor guy has been clubbed enough himself to know it's survivable.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Interesting that you suggest it "drove a wall between them," where I saw the two of them as utterly vulnerable in that closing scene, with no walls left, even the ones they needed.

Maybe it does both?
I think both of them were brought down to the exetremes of what drives them - Daniel is obviously increasingly frustrated with the SGC's emphasis on military stuff rather than exploring - they're gearing up for "Meridian" after all. This is his cracking point and some of Daniel's idealism does frustrate Jack sometimes - when he thinks Daniel's idealism is (unintentionally) endangering them/Earth and, maybe, because it's something Jack sees lost in himself.

Ultimately, at the end they are both striped emotionally bare and vulnerable - like you said - and I'm not sure either of them likes what he sees in himself or the other. I don't see Daniel really forgiving Jack (there was obviously long-standing resentment in his "you stupid son of a bitch") and Jack isn't going to easily get over Daniel's judging him for doing what he needed to do. Jack is a soldier down to his bones and he cannot second-guess his actions.

I think that moment of vulnerability, without the walls, made them put up harsher walls. But then, the next time we really see much interaction between them, Daniel is dying. I can't help but wonder why he chose Jack in "Meridian" to interact with the most - if he knew he could convince Jack (I don't see Sam being easy to convince, but I think Teal'c would be easier than Jack, but everyone in the infirmary is more likely to listen to Jack). And now I'm going off into even more tangents. Sorry.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

You know, I didn't really notice how often Daniel's jacket and tac vest is undone, until I watched that final Tollan episode, with the dude's funeral? The rarity of seeing him with a jacket zipped made me realize how often it isn't.

His jacket is zipped up tight and they were on a location shoot in the winter months, so I figure it must've been damn cold shooting that day. Daniel/MS actually has "his coat buttoned!" (tm my mom).

Well, though these may be fightin' words, I've mostly seen it in slash fic,

Oh it's in gen fic too. *sigh* Naive, bumbling, clumsy pacifist Daniel who couldn't tie his shoelaces without the team helping him, much less shoot the bad guys. Like you point out, he knows, he just can't be bothered with those details unless he sees the purpose of it.