Canon vs. Fanon, part 18: Off-world Fanon, part 1

[fignewton]

Welcome to the next installment of Canon vs. Fanon! I bid a warm welcome to the new people on my flist, and I'll hope you'll join the discussion. :)

This time, we are tackling the first section of off-world fanon. Unlike most of these essays, this one is not Daniel-centric. I originally intended to make a single post out of this, but thanks to some very entertaining discussion, the list grew too unwieldy for a single section. I hope to get the next one up in the next several weeks, but I advise against holding your breath!

Brief recap: Canon is defined as anything directly shown during Stargate: The Movie or episodes of the show, with show superseding the movie when there's a contradiction. Fanon is defined as widely-accepted concepts that appear in fanfic, but do not have any real basis in canon. The purpose of this series is not to denigrate those authors who use fanon, but rather to show precisely what is canon, and what is fanon. If I've missed any canon appearances which support or contradict my analysis, I would greatly appreciate it if you'd point that out in the comments.

Please note that I no longer include spoiler warnings for S10 episodes, although I will continue to do so for Ark of Truth and Continuum if the need arises.

Primitive natives attack the team.

Ah, that lovely staple of hurt/comfort fics: the locals attack, Daniel can't translate their pidgin Mayan/Urdu/Mongolian/Chinese/Celtic/whatever, arrowheads and/or darts (or big rocks) go flying, the team fails to make it to the Gate, and they are forced to go to ground while someone's (poisoned) wound presents rapid and dangerous infection, and they all gather round to bathe the victim's brow and... :)

Soooooo, how often did this actually happen on the show?

Believe it or not: twice.

The Broca Divide. SG-1 goes through the Gate and promptly get jumped by the Touched. It's a good thing Makepeace and SG-3 waited a few minutes to come through so they could stop SG-1 from getting killed. There is no language barrier or misunderstanding here; it's simply primitive natives blindly attacking. But it certainly fits the description.

Redemption, part 1. The episode's teaser features Jack, Sam, Teal'c, and Captain Hagman - their ninth attempt at a replacement for Daniel - running for the Gate. Hagman is half-supporting Jack, who has torn some ligaments in his knee. Hagman breathlessly apologizes, "I swear, sir, I thought they wanted to smoke a peace pipe."

There is no other canon incident in which the team gets into a firefight with primitive locals because they can't communicate or are mistaken for Goa'uld. And while these two occasions can be used as canonical proof, it certainly doesn't justify the frequency with which the plot device gets used by fanfic authors.

Conclusion: With only two canon incidents to support it, there is no real basis for the common fanon trope of primitive natives attacking the team.

The team gets thrown in jail by the locals.

I'll elaborate more on this in the personal opinion section, but I will cheerfully and shamelessly confess that this is one fanon trope I adore - not so much the imprisonment, but SG-1's skills in jailbreaks. :)

It's certainly true that SG-1 could author a book titled The Best Prisons in Three Galaxies. However, the most popular fanon concept has the team imprisoned by the local population. If we look carefully at canon, though, it might be surprising to discover how rarely the team gets imprisoned when the Goa'uld (or other major villain) don't have a direct hand in the matter. Let's take a look at the numbers, shall we?

[I have not included captures that don't include actual prisons (or this essay would be four times as long, heh). Omitted examples include Sam in Emancipation; the team in Gamekeeper, The Tok'ra, Seth, and Rules of Engagement; Jack and Grogan chained in Sentinel; Bra'tac and Teal'c in Redemption, part 2; Sam and Daniel being held on the al'kesh in Endgame; Vala and Daniel being chained on the fire altar in Avalon and Origin; and Mitchell in Babylon. There are lots more, but that should be enough to demonstrate the difference between detainment and imprisonment.]

Imprisonment by a Goa'uld:

COTG. The team is dumped in the dungeon on Chulak, escaping when Teal'c turns on Apophis.

Serpent's Lair. The team is imprisoned after being taken out by a Goa'uld flash grenade. Bra'tac breaks them out.

Out of Mind/Into the Fire. Is it a prison if you don't know it? Sam and Jack and Daniel think they're in a future SGC, but Hathor has created an elaborate mockup on her ship instead.

Jolinar's Memories/The Devil You Know. The human members of SG-1, plus Martouf, are dumped in a literal dungeon on Netu. Convenient that Jacob is already occupying a few square feet of floor in the same prime location.

Double Jeopardy. Weeell, it wasn't really SG-1, but Cronus would assure us it's the thought that counts.

Enemies. Their prison is just a room on a Goa'uld ship with the circuits fried, but when the Goa'uld keeping you prisoner is aided by your teammate of the last five years, accommodations don't matter.

The Tomb. Included for the sake of compoletion. The entire zigguraut turns into a prison when the Russians trigger a boobytrap.

Revelations. If Osiris can get Teal'c and Jack into a holding cell, what difference does it make if dozens of his own Jaffa are killed in the process?

Abyss. Ba'al has some nifty gravity-based prison cells we never see again. Jack is just as glad.

The Other Guys. Putting aside the spirited arguments as to how much of the ep can be seen as canon, SG-1 gets dumped in a holding call with amazingly convenient large air ducts.

Metamorphosis. Nirrti keeps the team imprisoned while she plays connect-the-dots with DNA.

Homecoming. Anubis dumps Jonas in a holding cell. Energy surges (and Daniel) help him break out.

Orpheus. Teal'c (and team) tries to rescue Bra'tac and Ry'ac from a prison planet, and ends up imprisoned himself.

Evolution. Sam, Jack, and Teal'c are captured, together with a wounded Reynolds. The local Jaffa guard releases them when the supersoldiers attack, Jack extends his patented invitation, and Bra'tac gets another convert.

Moebius, part 2. No matter what the timelines, Sam and Jack and Daniel will always find themselves in a prison on Chulak.

Stronghold. Ba'al keeps Teal'c imprisoned and attempts to brainwash him into submission. Silly Ba'al.

So, lots and lots of canon for the team getting jail time courtesy of their friendly local Goa'uld. Next, let's catalog imprisonments on good old Earth:

Detained at the SGC. Various team members were detained in holding cells at the SGC itself: in Cold Lazarus, when a "second" Jack came stomping through the Stargate; in Tin Man, when Janet discovered they were androids; ITLOD, when Sam played host to Jolinar; in Threshold, when Teal'c was struggling with his brainwashing; in The Fifth Man, when their insistence on the existence of a fifth team member made Hammond suspect they were compromised; and Affiinity, when Teal'c was accused of murder. We can also add TBFTGOG, although that was an alternate SGC (or should I say SGA?) that locked up Daniel; 1969, where they were held at Cheyenne Mountain before it became the SGC; and Foothold, where aliens kept Jack and Daniel (and most of the SGC personnel) strung up on Level 23. I would put The Shroud here as well, even if Daniel's detention took place on a ship instead of within the SGC walls.

ETA: Thank you, eve11, for pointing out that I'd missed Enemy Within, in which Teal'c spends most of the episode confined to a holding cell until his actions in stopping Goa'ulded Kawalsky convince Hammond to trust and accept him as a member of SG-1.

Captured by the Trust and/or NID affiliates. Why I hate NID stories is a subject for a different sort of meta essay entirely, so let's just list the times that the team found themselves held or jailed because of NID or Trust actions: Desperate Measures, when Sam was abducted and held for experimentation; Prometheus, when Jonas and others were locked away as hostages; and Memento Mori, when Athene uses a Goa'uld-led trust to capture Vala and dig into her memories of Qetesh. I will include Jack's imprisonment for his attempted assassination of Kinsey in Smoke and Mirrors on this list, since he was framed by the NID.

A few more Terran imprisonments, just to round out the list, although three are really only included for the sake of completion:

Legacy. Daniel is certainly held against his will when he is dumped in that padded cell. Yes, this one is iffy. As I said, I've included it only to be as complete as possible.

Absolute Power. While it didn't actually happen, Sam's imprisonment by evil!Daniel does deserve to be mentioned.

Evolution. Daniel and Bill Lee are held as prisoners for several days before Daniel manages to break them out.

Ripple Effect. Evil!SG-1 get the drop on our SG-1 and lock them up in a room on Prometheus.

Of course, the Replicators have never been gracious hosts:

Unnatural Selection. The team may be on the Prometheus with technical freedom of movement, but they're imprisoned (and repeatedly mind-probed) nonetheless.

New Order. Fifth imprisons and tortures Sam.

Reckoning. Replicarter pins Daniel to the wall and tries to wrest the secrets of Ascension out of him. After "a little more time in Danny's world," though, the tables get turned - until Daniel gets killed again.

With S9-10, we met the Lucian Alliance. They liked beating up Teal'c jailing people:

Flesh and Blood. Netan takes out his anger at the Alliance's losses to the Ori on Teal'c.

Company of Thieves. The Odyssey gets hijacked, and Sam and the crew are held prisoner. Daniel and Vala eventually joing them. Teal'c gets caught by Netan, who gets to torture him some more until Mitchell breaks him out.

The Ori prefer imprisonment of the mind to physical jailing, but we do get Ori imprisonment twice, always with that special personal touch:

The Quest, part 2. Adria dumps Daniel in a cell on her ship until she has enough time to brainwash him and dress him in pretty shades of blue.

Spoilers for Ark of Truth. Daniel, Tomin, and Vala are imprisoned and tortured by the Doci.

Not too many prison incidents left now! Of those remaining, several were instigated by the locals, but with Goa'uld influence or deterrence guiding their decisions:

Thor's Hammer. Included for the sake of completion. Jack and Teal'c are sent to the Labyrinth by Thor's Hammer, which targeted Teal'c's symbiote as Goa'uld.

Cor-Ai. Teal'c is imprisoned on Cartago while he stands trial for deeds he committed as First Prime of Apophis.

Need. The team is imprisoned because Pyrus is terrified that they're going to interfere with the tribute he sends the Goa'uld through the Stargate.

Deadman's Switch. Aris Boch holds the team so he can claim the bounty for their capture from the Goa'uld.

The Powers That Be. Vala is imprisoned for the crimes she committed as Qetesh.

So, where does that leave us? How many times in canon do we find SG-1 imprisoned by the natives for their own purposes?

Prisoners. The grand, classic prison episode! The Taldor send SG-1 on a one-way trip to Hadante. By the time the dust has settled, the Destroyer of Worlds has been loosed on the universe.

Spirits. Included only for the sake of completion. The team is captured, but while they are initially denied permission to exit the room where they awaken, Tonane arrives in minutes and not only lets them out, but gives them back their weapon with little more than a shrug.

Demons. This one might fit better in the previous section - local imprisonment inspired by the Goa'uld - but I chose to list it here. Even though the canon and the town are certainly motivated by fear of Sokar and his pet Unas, SG-1's imprisonment was more to further the power of the canon than anything else.

New Ground. Jack-in-the-box! Plus Daniel and Sam in boxes. No one is happy, with the possible exception of Nyan when he's granted asylum on Earth.

Beneath the Surface. Some might argue the definition, but I'd say forced labor underground - even if they weren't aware of what it was at the time - certainly qualifies as prison.

Beast of Burden. Jack and Daniel try to get Chaka out of prison, and end up jailed themselves.

Ethon. Daniel and Jared are jailed for arguing against the Ori. "Don't you ever give up?" "Not until I'm dead... and sometimes, not even then." I will never pass up a chance to quote that...

That makes six times - seven, if you count Spirits - over ten seasons that the team is imprisoned by a planet's native population with no outside motivations. That's a far cry from the vastly disproportional number of fanfics in which SG-1 is jailed by fearful natives or hostile locals. These six (or seven) incidents do make the concept canon, of course; but it's used much more often than canon would suggest.

Conclusion: While there is canon support for imprisoning the team off-world, it is much more canonical to have the team imprisoned by the Goa'uld than by the local population.

The team faces mistrust or attack because Teal'c is recognized as a Jaffa.

This is another hugely popular theme in many fanfics: the team Gates to a planet, a native spots Teal'c's tattoo, and a hue and cry goes up. "Goa'uld!" "Demons!" "Kill them!" Daniel usually desperately tries to smooth things over, the bullets go flying, and there's a frantic run for the Stargate. Include injuries or not, depending on your whumping preferences.

Yes, there is canon evidence for this. No, it really isn't enough to justify the vast number of fics that employ it.

The First Commandment. Daniel, Teal'c, and Jack confront Jamala in an effort to find out what's happening with Jonas. Jamala stares at Teal'c and asks fearfully, "Is he a Jaffa?"

"Yes," Daniel answers.

Jamala cringes. "Don't kill me!"

"No, it's okay!" Daniel says hurriedly. "He's friendly. He's a friend." He slings an arm around Teal'c's shoulders. "Smile," he mutters at Teal'c. "Look friendly."

Teal'c attempts a smile and is really, really bad at it. Happily, his smiling skills improve by the time he meets Cassandra in Singularity.

Cor-Ai. The classic episode for the trope. Not only is Teal'c recognized as Jaffa, but he is identified as the Jaffa who killed Hanno's father by Apophis' command. Much angst ensues. Thankfully, Teal'c is so awesome that even Hanno has to forgive him in the end.

Fire and Water. Nem senses Teal'c's symbiote and believes that Omarocca must have failed, and that Earth is still under the subjugation of the Goa'uld. Because of that belief, he abducts Daniel and brainwashes the other three, rather than simply asking nicely.

Fallen. Included for the sake of completion. SG-1 arrives on Vis Uban and greets the natives. Khordib, one of the same nomads who found Daniel, points at Teal'c and observes, "He is Jaffa."

"No," says Jack with annoying cheerfulness. "But he plays one on TV." Thank you, RDA. Not.

Khordib casually accepts this and the assurance from Jonas: "He's a friend, as are we."

The identification is made, but there is no reaction at all. As I said, I included it mostly so it wouldn't be brought up in the comments. :)

Believe it or not, that's it! To be honest, I am personally convinced that I must be missing something. Three incidents over the entire series, and all of them within the first dozen episodes? If you know of another, please do cite it in the comments! But in the meantime...

Conclusion: Since there are only three times that Teal'c is recognized and feared as a Jaffa, and these all take place within the first half of the first season, the frequent usage in fanfics falls into the category of fanon.

Daniel argues for the life of a Goa'uld's host.

It is true that Daniel is more acutely, miserably aware of the nature of the host as victim than many others at the SGC. Sha're. Skaara. Sarah Gardener. Even Vala, if you like. But that doesn't mean he would urge Jack to leave a defeated Goa'uld alive because the host doesn't deserve to die. In fact, Daniel has never made such an argument in the series, with a single exception that I will clarify below.

Serpent's Song. Daniel stares coldly at Apophis and threatens to kill him. There is no suggestion of sparing the host. It is true that Daniel sets aside his hatred long enough to show compassion for the poor scribe and say the last rites with him, but there is nothing in the entire episode to imply that his pity would move him to try and spare the man's life.

Desperate Measures. Someone does argue for the host's life in this episode. Unfortunately, the advocate in question is the Goa'uld himself. "Shoot me," Conrad warns Jack, "and you'll kill the host."

Summit/Last Stand. This is the only time we see something close to fanon here. Jacob and Renal explain the plan to have Daniel go undercover as a lotar and release a vial of poison at the System Lords' summit:

Daniel asks, "It doesn't kill the host?

"Not the chemical itself," Renal replies. "But as you know, the dying symbiote releases its own toxin, which is just as deadly."

Jacob adds, "Daniel, the human host of a System Lord has been through the sarcophagus countless times. We know the toll that takes. They're hundreds, sometimes thousands of years old. Never mind the psychological damage they suffered; physically, without the Goa'uld sustaining them, they die anyway."

Daniel, sounding a little skeptical, says, "So, we're doing them a favor?"

"In many ways, yes."

The subject is closed. Interestingly, when Jacob and Daniel discuss the matter further in private, the question of the hosts does not come up at all; rather, Daniel asks about the "bit of a wrinkle": how the Tok'ra intend to keep the Jaffa alive, when their survival depends on the symbiotes they carry.

Later, Daniel is about to release the poison when Osiris - who has taken Sarah Gardener as host only a year before - stalks into the room. Shaken, Daniel puts away the poison and tries to hide his face. Osiris spots him, but says nothing. When Daniel retreats to Yu's chambers to tell Jacob the new development, Osiris shows up and threatens him with a dagger. Daniel injects Osiris with the chameleon chemical, and a confused Osiris wanders away. Daniel resumes his conversation over the radio with Jacob:

Jacob demands, "Why didn't you just release the poison, Daniel?

"Because I would have killed Sarah," Daniel answers simply. "There's got to be a way we can save her, right? You've taken symbiotes out of the host without killing them before."

"We'd have to get her out of there first," Jacob points out.

"So?"

"Daniel, there's a bigger picture here," Jacob presses. "You have to release the poison. Do it now. You know what's at stake, Daniel. No single person's life is more important. Complete your mission."

So yes, Daniel hesitated when he saw a Goa'uld System Lord with a host that wasn't yet destroyed by centuries or millennia of sarcophagus use. On the other hand, it seems clear that a major factor in that hesitation was his personal history with Sarah. And in the end, Daniel is ready to release the poison and kill Sarah along with the rest of the System Lords. It is only when he hears Osiris speak of Anubis, and realizes that instead of a vacuum, the Goa'uld would have a supreme ruler to reign over the galaxy, that he puts the poison away and tries for Plan B.

Dominion. I include this one with reluctance, for two reasons. First, it doesn't really fit the pattern; and second, I have major problems with this particular incident. I won't get into them here; the last time we discussed this, the entire issue got sidetracked into arguing about the moral worth of the Tok'ra and Daniel's comfort zone with them. However, it does add something to discussion.

For what it's worth, here's what happens: Ba'al takes Adria as host. They need Adria to get the Ori armies to stand down, but Ba'al certainly won't cooperate. Between them, Sam and Daniel come up with the idea to have a Tok'ra to take Ba'al's place and control Adria long enough to get the job done. There is no mention of the rights of the host.

As I said, I'm reluctant to add this to the list. This is more about the host's rights than keeping the host alive, and Adria is hardly an innocent victim - in fact, some would suggest that despite his recognition of Vala's feelings on the matter, Daniel never saw Adria as remotely human in the first place. Nonetheless, it is chilling to see Daniel, who lost his wife to Amaunet, casually advocate for the Tok'ra to "make an exception in this case." Agree or disagree below, as you like.

Conclusion: Other than the discussion on Vorash and a few moments' hesitation when he is first confronted with Sarah Gardener in Summit, Daniel has never shown the slightest reluctance to kill a Goa'uld, even though it means the host would be killed as well.

My personal fanon opinion? The team coming under attack by angry local natives makes for great drama. There's conflict and angst and problem-solving, even if you forgo the whumping aspects. There's certainly no reason to avoid writing it... as long as authors realize that such incidents should be very few and far between, and not a regular happenstance that occurs on every other mission!

As for SG-1 in prison - well, as I state above, I absolutely adore fics in which the team works together to break out of prison. My personal favorites are eve11's paired fics, Folsom Prison Blues and Proportional Hazards. Another fantastic example of the genre is Thel's Lucky Stars. You will note that all three of these fics, despite bumps and bruises, are light and fun. :) Personal preferences aside, prison fics can be a real pleasure - but it doesn't hurt to recognize that while the Goa'uld threw the team into jail all the time, canon suggests that the local population of any given planet is much less likely to do so. Authors should keep that in mind.

I wrote above that I'm actually hoping that someone can give me another canon example of the team meeting suspicion, hostility, or fear became they've got Teal'c with them. I'm still baffled at finding only three, and all of those in the first half of the first season! If no one can save the situation with further citations, then this is definitely a case of fanon run amok, and writers would be wise not to use it more than absolutely necessary.

And finally, I will speculate that the idea of Daniel begging for the host's life is most likely part of the same fanon that laughingly suggests that Daniel is a pacifist. More to the point, Daniel isn't stupid, and he doesn't think that Jack is, either. Neither one of them would ever suggest leaving a deadly enemy, even an incapacitated one, alive at their backs. And if Daniel ever did make such an insane suggestion, I would hope that Jack (and possibly Sam and Teal'c, too) would very pointedly explain why it is not going to happen. Bottom line: if this fanon has any basis at all, it's Daniel's question about the survival of the hosts and his few moments' hesitation in Summit. But considering that Daniel does actually try to kill the System Lords - including Osiris in Sarah Gardener's body - canon very pointedly shows us that while Daniel might wish for the chance to save a Goa'uld's hosts, he is pragmatic enough to recognize when it simply isn't possible... or strategically viable.

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

Comments

[eve11]

Didn't Teal'c get "drowned" by Christian or Puritan natives in ... Red Sky maybe? Some relatively early episode. Maybe that wasn't because he was specifically Jaffa, but they thought he was some kind of witch?

Also, Teal'c totally gets imprisoned by *Earth* in the early days of the series, right? Does that count?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes! Teal'c spent most of Enemy Within in a holding cell. Thank you, I'll edit to include it.

The reference to Teal'c getting drowned is from Demons. No, they didn't recognize him as Jaffa; they decided his tattoo was the "mark of the devil" and proceeded to drown him to prove he was really innocent. Very helpful, I'm sure!

[kalquessa.livejournal.com]

It always bugged me that after those instances in the first season, they never run into more people who jump at the sight of Teal'c and run for the torches and pitchforks. It just seemed like it should have happened more. I get that a lot of the planets they visited hadn't seen a Goa'uld or a Jaffa in generations but it seems like they still should have hit more than three planets where the locals recognize a Jaffa when they see one. (Well, the old guy on Vis Urban knew that he was Jaffa, but Jack allayed any concerns he may have had with his "No, but he does play one on TV" line.) Or maybe I am completely out to lunch and the canon is fine. *shrugs*

[aelfgyfu_mead]

"No, it's okay!" Daniel says hurriedly. "He's friendly. He's a friend." He slings an arm around Teal'c's shoulders. "Smile," he mutters at Teal'c. "Look friendly."
Teal'c attempts a smile and is really, really bad at it.
Didn't care for the episode for multiple reasons, but I love that little scene!

I think I'm starting to see a pattern in fanon problems: while no one fic is usually a problem, a multitude using the same rare trope from the show becomes a problem. So we should all be more original in our fics! ;-)

I guess the biggest thing I'm getting from these posts is not to have the characters or narration say the wrong thing: SG-1 being thrown in prison is one thing, but having Sam say it's the fourteenth time this year the natives have imprisoned them would fail; Daniel being unable to communicate is not unprecedented (there's "One False Step," but the natives don't attack them), but having Jack complain that natives keep attacking them because Daniel can't make himself understood would be bad.

Good to know, as usual! And you do such a great job not only with the contents, but with the set-up of the page, with links and headers and color-coding and everything! I'm in awe!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I agree with you absolutely - they should have had more clashes. But they don't. So - fanon, what can I say?

[night-spear1287.livejournal.com]

My personal opinion is that it'd be very reasonable for people to be attacked/jailed/etc. coming out of the Stargate (imagine four armed people stepping out of the Earth Stargate and how Earthlings would react), but I trust you're right about the frequency in canon. I guess if you take the view that there are a lot of missions we don't see, it's possible that this happens more often that we think, but if you take the view that we see most if not all of the missions...huh. I guess they're just good at making people like them :)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Hmm. As big a fan as I am of playing canon v fanon like knowing Jacob doesn't call his daughter Sammie or Daniel doesn't actually have a couch in his office, I'm not quite following the argument for this one, fig.

What you cite are plot devices and settings to come up with fanfic. If we don't use those (or other similar concepts), then why bother writing the stories? especially for those of us not here for the porn.

Some of the tropes here are cliche, obviously, but I don't know I'd go so far as to call it "fanon" as in "not having a basis in canon". The fact is there is canon evidence to support these events have happened at least once in SG-1 history show it's a possibility these things (or other original ones) can happen when we come up with more adventures for the team. To remain consistent with canon in that respect would end up being all episode related (hey, I'm a big fan of ep-related stories, since a great majority of my fic IS that).

I agree with aelfgyfu_mead above about the concept of saying things within stories of "this always happens" goes into the "fanonness" of it, but the nature of the stories themselves, that's just...the nature of the beast. Sometimes as authors we embrace the cliche, sometimes our muse is stuck in it, or sometimes we break out of it and do something more original. But I honestly don't pay attention to proportionally how many or few prison stories or offworld adventures I write compared to Earth based or Goa'uld adventures I've written. How many I read depends on my mood or particular interests. ;-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Hee, yes - I love that Teal'c and Daniel scene too. Why do you think I described it so lovingly? :)

I think you're right that fanon very often crops up in characterization. Much of Saint Daniel, frex, is how others think overly fondly of him, or agonize at some perceived mistreatment of him. A lot of plotlines could be overlooked if the characters themselves, in the story, weren't referring to them as constant. (I mean, I'm amused at a casual reference in a favorite fic of mine to someone occupying the "Jackson Bed" in the infirmary, but seriously? Fanon.)

Thanks for the lovely compliments! I'm glad you're enjoying the posts.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I guess they're just good at making people like them :)

Well, I like them... :)

I haven't decided yet whether we're seeing the majority of their missions. I'll get back to you on that in the next off-world fanon section (when it's written, heh).

Don't forget that in many off-world cultures, the Stargate is something they know and recognize as part of their regular lives. Contrast this with the terror of the guards in COTG when Apophis came through. That might make a difference... OTOH, niamaea drew a priceless comic in which the natives run screaming from the heavily armed SG-1, even as Daniel plaintively calls after them, "Wait! Can't you tell that we come in peace?" Sadly, I can't find the link at the moment. Hopefully someone reading this can supply it! :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

To remain consistent with canon in that respect would end up being all episode related

Hmm, no. I'd say canon compliant. That's probably the best definition of canon vs. fanon, I suppose. As I say in the personal opinion section, the prison thing and the natives attacking thing is more a question of degree. I included them here not because they're wrong, but because they're used so often in fanfics, and we often get the characters lamenting, "Oh, not this again!"

The reaction to Teal'c thing still surprises me. I want someone to find more proof of this, because I believe it should be canon! But as I've often said, people are free to draw their own conclusions as to what to include or exclude from their stories; the point of these essays is knowledge, not persuasion. Does that make any sense?

Yes, I agree with Aelfgyfu too. There's nothing wrong with these storylines. "There are no new stories, only new angles." I just wish we didn't see the people in the stories treating them as canon, so to speak. :)

And bite your tongue. There's lots and lots for gen fans to love! :D

[goldjadeocean.livejournal.com]

Nice analysis--much love for your canon skills. Now I want to hear that rant on NID stories!

[katie-m.livejournal.com]

Well, okay, but there's a difference between "fanon which is silly and should be avoided" and "fanon which is perfectly reasonable, really." I think it's awfully strong to say that writers should avoid a very likely and plot-conflict-enabling event just because the show did; I mean, this is the same show who wants us to believe that the entire Jaffa population can run around on tretonin produced from, uh, well, that's not entirely clear but apparently the means of production are in the hands of the Tok'ra, that's not going to cause a problem is it?

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

Yes, this. It's important to be aware of what is fanon and what's not (which is one reason I love these posts so much), but when fanon makes sense, there's no reason to avoid it.

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

Love love love the fanon vs canon series! So fun, so useful... One thing I would note regarding the discussion above it that it is useful to have certain story lines pointed out as being overused, whether or not they have a basis in canon. Even conventions that start out as being perfectly viable become trite and hackneyed over time. It's not that we should never use them (and I know that I have included my own share of cliches), but if the thought that this is a very widely used device is at the forefront of our minds, it may spur us to find new ways to approach old situations.

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

Oh, interesting. I do so love these posts. I agree with some of the others that there's no reason for these plot devices not to be used, since they are rational and do make sense. But it does get tiresome when people refer to these things happening all the time within the context of the story itself.

Nonetheless, it is chilling to see Daniel, who lost his wife to Amaunet, casually advocate for the Tok'ra to "make an exception in this case." Agree or disagree below, as you like.

Mmm...disagree, for the reason you stated: Adria is not innocent. Daniel has a great deal of sympathy for those who are caught in the crossfire as it were. But once people cross a line from bystander to combatant, Daniel's pity pretty much evaporates, and Adria was never a bystander.

Also, I think it's important to note that Daniel spent a good deal of time with Adria in between The Quest and The Shroud. He knows her, he probably has some personal baggage with her at that point beyond just the whole her wanting to take over the galaxy thing. So it's easy for me to see why he could watch her be used that way if it served a greater purpose. (Interestingly, though, he does pester Vala repeatedly about how she feels about it. He could be projecting his issues onto her.)

[tejas.livejournal.com]

I am of the opinion that we only see a portion of their missions. We even have canon evidence of that. In Emancipation, Jack alludes to an incident from another mission that we never saw. In S6, before Jonas was made part of the team, we saw bits and pieces of a mission and references to other missions where other Daniel replacements didn't work out. So, I don't think we can casually say these were *absolutely* the only times, just that these are the only ones we saw. It would be almost as bad as saying the only times they ever ate is when we saw them eat on screen (which would go a long way toward explaining their appetites in Upgrades, now that I think of it ;-). We just don't have any specifics.

Oh! One other "captured by Goa'uld" could be Tangent, where Teal'c and Jack are 'captured' by Apophis' fail safe in the glider. Or that might go in the same category as Thor's Hammer.

I now have an idea for a series of short fics called "The Great Escapes, Or How Mission Report Template GE-14 Came To Be".

(I'm just sorry they never had the guts to go with AMTDI. Okay, given *who* would have been in charge of this, maybe I'm not sorry. I think I need to go reread Eos' "Debriefings" again. :-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

there's a difference between "fanon which is silly and should be avoided" and "fanon which is perfectly reasonable, really."

Of course there is. I don't write these essays in an attempt to dictate how fanfic writers approach their stories, and I hope I've never implied that, despite my title as "Benevolent Dictatrix." The whole point of canon vs. fanon is to point out which common fanfic storylines have little or no basis in canon. Once that information is presented, anyone is welcome to pick it up or run with it; or ignore it; or take me off their flist, even. :)

Yes, some fanon is silly (Dannyboy, Saint Daniel, Daniel pleading with Jack to leave a Goa'uld alive for the sake of the host) and should be avoided. Yes, some is a only a matter of degree (the coffee addict vs. coffee snob thing, trees, trees, trees, and the prison thing detailed here.) I don't expect authors to avoid a very likely and plot-conflict-enabling event just because the show did. I would like writers to recognize, though, that when using a storyline that occurred rarely (or never) on the show, it can ruin characterization to have Jack or Sam or Teal'c or Daniel thinking how "this always happens!" when it didn't do so in canon.

I love your tretonin reference. No one ever seems to remember that when Jacob first gave it to Bra'tac and Teal'c in Changeling, he specifically said it wasn't supposed to be a permanent solution. And with no more queen or new Juniors, how are they even supposed to make more tretonin? Not to mention, as you point out, putting the Jaffa into pretty much the same position as Aris Boch's people. Imagine having a substance that's vital for survival in the hands of a people with, to put it as politely as possible, a rather poor track record for playing nicely with others. Brrrrr.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

when fanon makes sense, there's no reason to avoid it.

Absolutely. As I say above, I'd hate to see all those prison break fics go away... :)

All I ask is that people recognize the difference. Once they do, what they write next is entirely up to them!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

But it does get tiresome when people refer to these things happening all the time within the context of the story itself.

Aelfgyfu was the the first one to clarify this in her comment, and I do think she's absolutely right - this is what takes it from a light (if possibly overused) plot device into fanon for me. "Oh, no, Daniel touched something again!" "For crying out loud, can't we find a planet without trees for a change?" "Oops, Jack. I left my gun on the ramp when I stopped to tie my bootlaces." (Okay, heh, that one is pure annoying fanon.)

It's nuances of characterization rather than plotlines that can tip such stories into fanon. And as always, the purpose of these posts is just to point things out.

Good point on Daniel having a more personal POV on Adria. To be frank, I'm astonished that Adria isn't a lot more vindictive towards Daniel in Dominion and Unending than we're shown. He betrayed her so thoroughly.

My biggest problem isn't so much the rights of the host as much as the casual suggestion that it's okay for the Tok'ra to violate their most sacred tenets of behavior. But that's pretty much getting into another discussion, so I'll just drop it. :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, you'll get it. Trust me. :)

Glad you're enjoying these!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :)

I'll point out that storylines can follow even cliched plot devices and can contain useful and entertaining twists. But yes, it's helpful to realize what's been overdone, whether or not it's canon or fanon. Of course, reading lots and lots and lots of fic can accomplish the same thing. ;)

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

Well, there's that... And all the deliniation of fanon from canon really helps!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree that we see only a portion of their missions! And that's fair enough: some of these fanon tropes might very well have taken place in those offscreen missions. But we can extrapolate. Yes, Sam brushed her teeth more than once in all ten seasons. :) But assuming regular hygiene and purchases of clothing isn't quite the same thing as assuming that everything fanon just happened to take place on one of those offscreen missions!

I say again: nothing wrong with fanon, as long as people know it's fanon, and treat it accordingly.

I'm just sorry they never had the guts to go with AMTDI.

This is aimed at gen fic, y'know. :) But for the record: yes, they did go with AMTDI. It was called Hathor.

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

I don't actually see Adria as human. To me, Vala is actually misguided in her hope to save her. It's hard enough to give birth to the Ori's entrance to the galaxy without having to admit to yourself that the infant you carried isn't human.

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

AMTDI? What's that? Or would I rather not know?