Continuity complications: Vala and more

[fignewton]

After watching The Quest, part 2 and Line in the Sand, I find myself very, very frustrated with the subject of Vala. No real spoilers for those two episodes ahead, but please be careful anyway.

I watched the Vala of this episode. And I remembered the Vala of last episode. And it bothers me to no end that I want to like this Vala, and I can’t. Because the writers insisted on grafting this likeable Vala to the woman who stole the Prometheus for her own profit and left Hammond and Walter and SG-3 to die. Quite frankly, I really don’t know why Vala wasn’t thrown in a jail cell the second she came flouncing through the Gate, way back in Avalon. And when she did come to Earth, she slapped a bracelet on Daniel that she knew might kill him. And she has never, ever shown the slightest bit of remorse for those actions, or apologized.

While we’re at it, how about the constant harassment? Switch it around for a moment. Make it Valan constantly needling Danielle, including the bright, smarmy suggestion, “Yeah, let’s make babies!” Would anyone find it even remotely funny?

The Vala of Prometheus Unbound and the first episodes of S9 was not someone I wanted around my team. And the forced grafting – on her part with her personality and motivations, and on SG-1’s part with her acceptance of her – is grating, nonsensical, and utterly out of character.

Let’s suggest a different scenario, just as an hypothesis. A woman – in tight leather, why not? – meets up with an SG team off-world somewhere. She’s heard about the famous Tau’ri; she’s even heard about the famous SG-1 and Dr. Daniel Jackson, who is supposed to know more about the Ancients than just about anyone. She shows the SG team a tablet, tells them that it’s supposed to lead to a vast, buried treasure, and offers to share the profits with the Tau’ri if their Daniel Jackson will help her figure it out.

Meanwhile, Daniel is set to go to Atlantis. Word of the puzzle reaches him, and he agrees to rendezvous with this woman (off-world, thank you!) in the short time he has before the ship leaves. Somehow, by accident, they get linked together, and they’re going to have to find the treasure cache in order to get the key to release them from the bond.

We can continue from there in pretty much the same vein as the show, without even having to change Vala’s personality. She can still be devious and bright and funny and have a shady past. Daniel can still be frustrated by her personality. Vala can still be largely selfish, but ultimately sacrifice herself to stop the forming of the first Supergate, and so forth. But there wouldn’t be any of this awful baggage that makes it truly impossible to like her.

It seems that if I’m going to want to enjoy these last episodes of SG-1 at all, I’m going to have to shut off my brain from anything that took place in the first eight seasons of the show. I have to forget what the Goa’uld used to be (see previous mutterings); I have to forget what Vala used to be. Daniel’s characterization has moved forward in ways that can be extrapolated from his experiences, but that deeply disappoint me. (Not The Quest. I mean his general characterization in seasons 9-10.) Teal’c’s beautiful journey to lead the Jaffa has bogged down in inconsistencies, bureaucratic nonsense that shouldn’t rear its ugly head until a lot further down the line in their development of a free society, and the Jaffa Nation’s atrocious lack of gratitude to not only the Tau’ri, but also to Bra’tac and Teal’c. The only character who seems to have grown is Sam; and I attribute that to Jack’s absence, and the inability of the writers to overwhelm her personality and character arc for the sake of being The Girl ™.

It comes down to this: the last two seasons seems to not only include new characters, but to have made new character out of the characters, and new backstories for the old storylines. The Goa'uld are now laughable; the Tok'ra don't seem to exist; the Asgard are there mostly for comedy; and the characters seem to have little or no recall of anything that happened in the eight years before S9 began. I know there are exceptions, yes. But those are far and few between.

I believe I've seen references to an initial proposal to change the name of the show from "Stargate: SG-1" to "Stargate Command" for S9 and onwards. Might that have helped? Maybe. But I'm still bothered by the way that so much wonderful backstory was abandoned, or retconned at will, to suit the current storylines. It cheapens the show.

As I say on my profile page, I don't much care for these last two seasons, but I'm willing to keep an open mind. And I've been trying. But it doesn't seem to be working very well.

I want to enjoy this last half of the season. And the Vala of now is someone I could like, if her backstory wasn’t such a sickening one. So does anyone have any suggestions for a truly realistic way to marry S8-9 Vala with S10 Vala so that I can just accept her presence and move forward?

Comments

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

So does anyone have any suggestions for a truly realistic way to marry S8-9 Vala with S10 Vala so that I can just accept her presence and move forward?

Suggestion I have? Write her into some fic. Seriously. And now that I've read some of your fic, I know you'd do an awesome job. :-) If having her and Daniel together is too volatile for your taste, do it with one of the other characters or an original one.

I had a lot of issues with S9 Vala. Then I wrote a fic based in "Avalon" with scenes with Vala...and I wrestled with them. One early draft of an argument with her and Daniel ended up with Daniel channelling all my issues with her character, and "Daniel" really reamed her out.

It was cathartic, but was OTT for Daniel's character and really mean to Vala (I hated Vala, and I felt bad how badly I ragged on her). The draft got altered, I got to focus on Vala's personality and pick out that she was a bit more complicated than she appeared (more from CB's performance than from the archtype writing). The end result of my story (hopefully) remained true to both characters and ended up helping me make some peace with the character.

I've since written her a few times (and she is cool to write, I see why the TPTB's were so tempted to play with her character--they should've resisted temptation more IMHO, but...), sometimes to understand her, sometimes just because she's a necessary part of where the story is set.

But that's generally my answer to annoying continuity questions. Write a fic to figure out how it can be resolved. I'll ask the question why this or that without an answer and then the process of writing the story helps me find the answer. Usually it helps me come to terms with it, and except for one instance where I kept a bit more of my "agenda" rather than a focus on letting the characters/plotline speak for themselves, it helps.

Well, that didn't help in the specific meta of your Vala issues did it? But, that's how *I* grew to accept Vala better, so that just happens to be how *I* feel about it. What do you think? ;-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Heh. Thanks for the compliment, but there is no way I can possibly get deeply enough into Vala's head to write her. I know those might be famous last words. But I also don't care enough about her to make the effort.

Fanfics can, of course, be a wonderful catharsis. It's why ep tags, in particular, are so hugely popular! But there's a huge difference between saying, "I love this character, and this behavior doesn't make sense, so I want to try and write an explnation for it," and saying, "I don't like this character, and the behavior of the rest of the team towards this character doesn't make sense, so I want to try and write an explanation for it." Until Vala matters to me, I have no interest in matking the effort.

I do like your methods, though. And of course I happen to be rather fond of that quote, so you made definitely made me smile. :)

[And you know that I'm really quite fond of your Avalon fic, right?]

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

Not commenting on the general season 9/10 stuff because...well, I don't necessarily disagree with you on a lot of it, but I carefully guard my season 9/10 squee and don't like to expose it to a lot of negative criticism. If it were an opinion that matters, that would be a horrible exercise in willful ignorance, but since it's fandom, I don't care. :P

Anyway. Regarding Vala, I've gotten the feeling that she went through a lot of changes both in the Ori galaxy and after coming to the SGC. She might not apologize on screen (and maybe she never apologized out loud at all), but she made changes. Actions speak louder than words is a cliche, but it's also true. They took a chance on her, and so far she's proven them right.

Yes, as Daniel says, she lied, cheated, stole, misrepresented herself, lied, etc. But she did risk her life for them twice before even joining the SGC.

I guess, even though I don't like the person that Vala is in seasons 8/9, I'm a big fan of the person she's become. She worked hard to change (and even if we don't see in on screen, it's got to be a struggle to change the sort of habits that Vala had developed during her previous life) and that says a lot to me.

I'm not trying to convert you to being a Vala fan, just explain why even though I cringe at some of the things she did in season 9, I love her anyway. *g*

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

First of all, I'm really glad I didn't ruin your squee! I was hoping I wouldn't dampen anyone's enthusiasm. :)

I do like the person we see on the screen now. I think I like her quite a lot. But I have immense problems getting her from where she was to where she is. And to my mind, "even if we don't see it onscreen" isn't really fair. Nor does it explain why they accepted her to the point of a friendly basketball game way back in early S9.

I'm glad she works for you! I just wish I could find some way that she'd work for me. :)

[surreallis.livejournal.com]

I hear you. While I loved Vala in Promethius Unbound, I was sort of horrified when they brought her onto SG-1. Someone made a comment about how she didn't really belong on SG-1, she would be better as Daniel's 'Maybourne', and I really agreed with that.

I've gotten used to her now, more out of resignation, I think. She's here and she's gonna stay so I'll find a way to get along. It's not that I dislike her, it's more that, yes, her character doesn't really... fit on SG-1, not in the way the team has been portrayed over the past 10 years. And it aggravated me that the writers seemed to see her as their new Shiny and seemed willing to let Sam go in order to bring Vala on. It turned out all right, but I'm still a little grumpy over that.

I thought season 9 was lacking big time, but I feel like season 10 was really gaining lost ground back again. The characters seemed to be finding their new chemistry and things seemed to be clicking again. Alas, it was not to be...

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

And it aggravated me that the writers seemed to see her as their new Shiny and seemed willing to let Sam go in order to bring Vala on.

You do know that Amanda Tapping was on maternity leave, right? Not that that really has anything to do with how Vala's written.... :-) But Sam was going to be missing for a few eps regardless.

Weird, to me, that you felt season 10 to be gaining ground...and what, now you feel it's lost it again? Imho, the first half of season 10 wasn't much better than most of season 9 (ie, not that good), but with The Quest I'm seeing it pick up and edge back towards the SG-1 I have enjoyed in the past.

Mind you, I'm US so don't spoil me if the answer has to do with the upcoming 8 episodes. :-)

[surreallis.livejournal.com]

Yes, I knew that. I was talking more about how during the contract signings for season 10 they signed Claudia and then just... didn't contact Amanda and forced her to come to them and ask what was up. And then Rob Cooper told her they didn't know what to do with her character. That pissed me off because it reeked of something bad. But it turned out okay in the end, and whether it was forced by fan outrage or it was really just blown out of proportion I guess it doesn't matter.

No! I'm US too, so I've only seen part of season 10, and I feel like the show is on an upswing again. I felt season 9 was really weak, and I wouldn't have been surprised had it been cancelled then, but I felt season 10 was significantly better, with the actors finding their niches and the characters finding their roles again. (Plus, I felt they reduced the emphasis on the Ori a bit and that helped.) But unfortunately it was either too little too late, or Sci Fi was unwilling to spend the money in any case. Ah well. I hope the movies go on for a while. ;)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

When I read Jenn's comment, I assumed she meant that Vala is often placed front and center, with Sam relegated to the background. That does happen a lot, and it annoys me. Vala is suddenly the expert on all things Goa'uld, not Sam. There's the time when Sam can't fix something, and Vala knows that they can use a certain crystal even if it's not the right fit. Or something like that. And it annoys me.

But still! These last two eps were so much better than nearly all of S9 and much of the first half of S10. So I guess I just have to ignore the irritating Vala backstory and sit back and enjoy. Now, if I can just figure out how to do that... :)

[izhilzha.livejournal.com]

Can't help you much, I'm afraid. :-) 6beforelunch pretty much articulated my exact thought process about Vala. Though I'm less of a Vala "fan" than she is.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, I enjoyed Vala in PU, too. But then she was purely antagonist. We were supposed to be amused by her, assume that 90% (at least) of what she said was untrue, and applaud Daniel's final use of the zat. :)

Someone made a comment about how she didn't really belong on SG-1, she would be better as Daniel's 'Maybourne', and I really agreed with that.

Huh. That is a very astute observation. Especially since I find the Maybourne love so prevalent in the fandom to be absolutely incomprehensible - as far as I can tell, it's because so many people enjoy the chemistry (not that way!) of the two actors onscreen. Vala does spark off Daniel, it's true. Then again, she sparks off just about everybody, and I really prefer her sparkage with everyone else besides Daniel.

Isn't it sad that we have to be resigned to a character, instead of enjoying that character? Yes, she's here to stay, and I do have to find some way to get around my dislike if I'm going to enjoy the rest of the show. And I do want to enjoy it - as you say, these last two eps were much better than most of last year's and a lot of the first half of S10, and if the show is ending, I'd rather it ended with a bang.

It's not just Vala that's the new shiny, though. It's Mitchell, who I'm really only starting to like now; and Landry, who I can't seem to like, much less respect; and Lam, who is more or less still in the category of "vanilla pudding." Pretty vanilla pudding, of course, but that's not quite enough. And while there's nothing wrong with "Oooh! Shiny!", there is something wrong when the New Shiny takes away from the regular character we love.

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Make it Valan constantly needling Danielle, including the bright, smarmy suggestion, “Yeah, let’s make babies!” Would anyone find it even remotely funny?

Or Aris Boch, leeringly rubbing himself up against Sam?

The only character who seems to have grown is Sam; and I attribute that to Jack’s absence, and the inability of the writers to overwhelm her personality and character arc for the sake of being The Girl ™.

Yeah, ditto. But thank goodness for small favors -- at least I can respect and have fun with Sam again!

There are some good episodes in the back half of s10. Unfortunately, the final episode of the series isn't one of them, which broke my heart. In fact, if it were possible for me to buy the s10 DVDs without that episode included, I would. Without being specific at all, I'd say just prepare yourself that there will be some specific things that I know you will dislike greatly, then go ahead and enjoy the ride. Honestly, lowered expectations help. I watched it prepared for fannish squee over the last ep of my show, and felt repeatedly, well, "let down" is the mild way of putting it. Friends who were spoiled before watching dealt with it a lot better than I did.

As far as Vala in particular, as mentioned above, Vala did reveal a more altruistic side, which makes her more likeable. And she and Daniel were thrown together into a frightening situation in another galaxy where they had to rely on each other -- and Daniel saw her killed. So there's that bonding-under-fire thing going on. (Or, more literally, bonding by fire.) Still, when she's not focused on a mission, s9-10 Vala continues to be emotionally immature, narcissistic, impulsive, inappropriately behaved and indiscriminately flirtatious. Gee, I wonder why Daniel gets annoyed with her? I'd snap, too.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Aris Boch fascinates me as a character that many fans like, even though he was largely unscrupulous and spent most of the ep at least a step or two ahead of SG-1. It took Teal'c's overwhelming coolness to sway him. Wouldn't it have been nice if we'd met him again? Maybe with a cure or alternate version of roshna? But yes - your scenario is exactly the way Vala acts, and I do not understand why people think "it's true love!" Honestly, I started reading an AU with the premise that Daniel did not get away from Vala in PU, and she tried to sell him to Ba'al for the bounty. Daniel manages to get away, and... er. Hooks up with Vala. I threw up my hands and closed the window, because obviously trying to sell him to a hated enemy is a sign of deep affection. ::gags::

I can respect and have fun with Sam again!

Yay Sam! I hope the trend continues.

Regarding the finale: Eep! on the warnings. Lowered expectations as useful? Oh dear. But I'd still prefer not to be spoiled. I mean, I know about the big spoiler from tonight's ep, because it was utterly impossible to miss, but I don't know what happens besides that. And I'm happier not knowing.

Vala and bonding by fire. Heh. You're right that she's matured out of necessity, but the childish immaturity of the backstory is just too infuriating. And, as you point out, we see that immaturity a little too often... Although I do think she's gotten a lot better. But yeah. I have no idea how Daniel can stand to be in the same room with her.

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Apparently one of the tie-in novels is an Aris Boch adventure, and I've heard it's pretty good. I'll have to check it out, because I love Aris! The guy had so much personality. And it was fun that he was a step or two ahead of our team, because our team is smart, and having such a worthy (and snarky) adversary was interesting. But if he'd leered all over Sam the way Vala did Daniel -- that would have been seriously skeevy.

A fic where Daniel hooks up with Vala after she's even worse than in canon? EEEeeeww! Back button! Apparently the Daniel/Vala ship started for a lot of people with PU, and just... NO.

Yeah, I won't spoil you for Unending, but the faster you can get over the moments of shock, the better you can enjoy what is good and fun in the ep.

I'll link you to the meta after you see the ep. I blather on for ages about Vala and about Daniel and about why hell no. ;-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

By tie-in novel, you mean Fandemonium? I've only read Julie's so far. (Yay for S1!) I've heard nice things about Sally Reeve's two books, but her name as a huge Sam/Jack writer has me a little wary. (To be fair, I've never read her fic, and she may keep it as perfectly within-regulations UST, and she might not have included it in the novels at all. So I might be doing her a disservice.)

But if he'd leered all over Sam the way Vala did Daniel -- that would have been seriously skeevy.

The funny thing is that he did leer just a little bit - at Daniel. :) And Daniel wasn't above using it - "We're sorry. Is the deal still on the table?" With Sam, though, he was pretty professional. Maybe that's why we all liked Boch so much - he broke so many of the stereotypes, even if he did dress too much like Boba Fett.

I look forward to the meta, even if you're making me kinda wary about Unending!

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the Aris book (http://www.stargatenovels.com/sg1-sirensong.shtml) is a Fandemonium one. And I've heard that the S/J writer did a better job of keeping shippiness out of her books than another writer who went kind of overboard with it. I haven't read any of the tie-ins, but friends have.

And Daniel wasn't above using it - "We're sorry. Is the deal still on the table?"

You know, I'm all about innuendo, and I have never seen it in that scene. I see Daniel being very obviously sarcastic -- voice sarcastic and face squinched up in a broad parody of "niceness." But I see the "flirting" interpretation a lot, so maybe it's just me.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Okay, that strikes me as seriously funny - that me, the poster girl for gen, would see something like that, and you wouldn't! :)

I didn't see Daniel flirting, per se, as much as Aris being just a little bit overly friendly with Daniel. As I said in the original post, I assumed that the over-friendliness was probably due to the bounty hunter's interest in possibly separating Daniel from the others in order to claim that higher-than-everyone-else's bounty. But when Daniel said that line: "We're sorry, is the deal still on the table?" - he blinked at Boch very deliberately. Now, I don't see Daniel as a flirt, although Sam certainly does. :) But I did interpret that blinking as Daniel saying, "Aw, c'mon, you don't really want to hurt us, right? Right?"

YMMV, naturally, and apparently does. :)

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

I'm laughing, too, because I see that interpretation a lot in slash fic! (Come to the dark side -- we have cookies! ;-)

Aris struck me as overly friendly, "ha ha" jolly with all of them, though he deliberately, I think, made sure he didn't do anything that could be taken as a pervy attack on Sam. He was almost gentlemanly, for a guy playing cat-and-mouse. Daniel's big "blink blink" was so overplayed, I saw it as Daniel doing it for sarcastic effect. Like, "I'm just pretending to be sweet and accomodating as part of the game. But we both know you're going to do what you want, and we'll fight you if we see an opening. In the meantime, maybe we can pretend to go along. So what's next?"

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Daniel's big "blink blink" was so overplayed, I saw it as Daniel doing it for sarcastic effect. Like, "I'm just pretending to be sweet and accomodating as part of the game. But we both know you're going to do what you want, and we'll fight you if we see an opening. In the meantime, maybe we can pretend to go along. So what's next?"

Huh. That's exactly as I see it, too. Almost word for word, really. Except that I think he deliberately chose the blink-blink as sarcastic emphasis because of Boch's behavior - not so much as a deliberate flirt, but with the flavor to keep Boch in a good mood and hopefully amused enough not to take him wholly seriously. So I think we actually agree, here. :)

Daniel really does have that earnest appeal look down pat. I mean, he did it to Colonel Chekov in 48 Hours, too, and I really don't think anyone would suggest an element of flirting there! At least I hope not. ;)

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Ah, okay -- flirting in a completely non-sexual and ironic sense. Yes!

(And no, not even the slashers see Daniel/Chekov. Or if someone has, I don't want to know about it!)