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Martyrdom
So much for Daniel's saintly behavior. How about the flip side of sainthood, then? Is Daniel a martyr?
Well, yes, by definition. :) There's
Daniel is always right, but sadly, his theories and opinions are usually denigrated or dismissed until events are on the cusp of disaster (or beyond it).
We’ve already debunked the “Daniel is always right” trope above, but what about the rest of this particular bit of fanon? Is Daniel all too often ignored or derided when he tries to offer advice or a solution? There is some canonical proof for this, although several of the episodes I cite here don’t include an element of danger:
COTG. Daniel tries – twice – to deliver an impromptu lecture at Chulak’s DHD when they first arrive at the planet. Jack cuts him off abruptly. While this could be called a bit rude, there was nothing dangerous in Jack’s continuing ignorance into exactly how Daniel had determined the seventh symbol.
Broca Divide. Daniel wants to explore the cultural implications; Jack ignores him completely. A frustrated Daniel stands up for himself in the next briefing, only to discover that the President in on his side and “you’ve already won.” Again, there was no danger involved here – it was another example of the civilian pursuit of knowledge vs. the military pursuit of weapons.
Thor’s Hammer. Daniel’s excited theories about the possibility of friendly aliens did meet with a bit of skepticism. Once Teal’c volunteers the information on how the Goa’uld feared the symbol of the Hammer,
Cor-Ai. Daniel insists on respecting the customs of the people of Cartago, while Jack wants to rescue Teal’c through force. Both ways eventually fail, and Teal’c is released through Hanno’s recognition of his inherent nobility.
Within the Serpent’s Grasp. Daniel has to plead incessantly with the rest of SG-1 to use the address he brought back through the mirror and try to stop Apophis’ invasion of Earth.
Maternal Instinct. Daniel comes out of the temple in Kheb and begs Jack to put his weapon down; Jack does not do so until Bra’tac sides with Daniel and urges him to agree. To be fair, until that moment, Daniel had been busy telling Jack that he was the one performing feats of telekinesis and pyrokinesis, not the mysterious Oma Desala, and Jack was faced with a squad of Jaffa primed to kill him.
The Other Side. Daniel recognizes that there are too many evasions and holes in Alar’s story. Both
The Curse. An irritated Jack hangs up on Daniel and throws away the cell phone’s battery. By the time Jack and Teal’c are back in the loop, Daniel has been severely ribboned and Osiris has escaped Earth. Again, to be fair, Jack had no way of knowing that there was a crisis looming – which is, of course, the problem with cutting off ties so completely.
Chain Reaction. Daniel, with Teal’c’s assistance, finds proof that the planet Bauer picked for the naquadah bomb test was not only possibly inhabited, but also contained traces of naquadah in the soil. Bauer ignored him – but then, he was ignoring everybody.
Red Sky. Jack persistently ignores Daniel’s efforts to deal with the villagers on their terms and tries to debunk their faith in the Asgard. It’s unclear whether the rocket would have been destroyed without the constant undermining of their beliefs, but I doubt Jack’s brutish behavior throughout the entire episode (not only with Daniel!) had all that much to do with it.
Menace. This one is too layered and sensitive to deal with briefly. It’s enough to say that both pursued the solution they knew best, and Daniel’s solution ultimately failed. Whether this was because of Jack’s interference is a subject for another essay entirely.
Fallout. Daniel struggles to deal with the representatives of Langara. Jack marches in and throws all the diplomacy out the window. In this case, I seriously question whether Daniel would ever have actually managed to get anywhere at all. (I have even more serious questions about
S9 Spoiler! Prototype. Daniel advocates killing Khalek. His advice is ignored, and SGC lives are lost.
That’s thirteen incidents. Of those, two are more about science vs. action; one was wholly theoretical, and was accepted with backing from Teal’c; four involve clashes where no one was really right, or there was no true solution. So in nine and a half seasons of SG-1, there were truly only six times that Daniel advocated a solution or theory that was ignored until the last moment – or beyond.
[I haven’t included Scorched Earth here, because that was a case of Daniel going one way and Jack going the other. Jack did ask Daniel for advice, and at the time, Daniel had none to give.]
Now, how about times when Daniel offered a theory that seemed ludicrous and far-fetched… and Jack/Hammond/whoever was playing antagonist accepted it?
Stargate the Movie. “They’re not hieroglyphs, they’re constellations.”
COTG. Daniel theorizes that the Stargate on Earth can’t connect to other Gates because of stellar drift. Sam: “I knew I’d like you.” Daniel: “You mean I’m right?”
Daniel later suggests in the briefing that there are other aliens like Ra, pretending to be gods: “It could be happening right now.”
Solitudes. Based on a glass of water and some flickering chevrons, Daniel makes the leap to a second Stargate on Earth. Sam and Jack are rescued just in time.
Thor’s Chariot. Daniel recognizes that the myth of the Thor’s “Hall of Might” could very well be based on reality, just like the Hammer. Jack agrees to let him go with Sam and Gairwyn in search of it. They meet Thor and Cimmeria is saved.
Spirits. Sam follows Daniel’s lead in speaking to the “spirits” in the same manner as the Salish. Later, when it’s crisis time at the SGC, Daniel convinces Jack to try for a peaceful resolution. “How do I know it’s you?” “Because.” “Yeah, okay.” (I do love those two!)
The Fifth Race. Daniel recognizes that the download going on in Jack’s head is from the original builders of the Stargate. Because of that theory, he tells Jack about Sam and Teal’c’s predicament and urges him to solve the problem. Jack subsequently draws a fully detailed diagram of the DHD, enabling Sam to reset the frozen DHD on the desert planet so the stranded team can return in safety. He later urges
One False Step. Daniel realizes that the tape of the planet is causing his symptoms even at the SGC. Sam isolates the aural problem and they save the little white guys.
Legacy. Despite drugs and disorientation, Daniel is the one to realize what is really happening with Machello’s Goa’uld-killing “buggers.” Jack leaves Teal’c’s bedside immediately when he hears Daniel is asking for him, believes him when he hears the theory, and gets him back to the SGC in time to work on the solution and save Teal’c’s life.
The Devil You Know. “I’ve been wrong about a lot of things. And I know I don’t always sound like I believe you, but I do believe in you.” Jack does back Daniel in his search for Kheb; the team is coming back from a failed search in Foothold, and they make the trek to Kheb itself in Maternal Instinct.
Crystal Skull. “Sir, radiation is climbing again.”
“Daniel said to let it happen.”
Small Victories. Daniel spots the difference in color between the original Replicator blocks and the ones from the Russian submarine. This stops the SGC from ordering the destruction of the sub before the original Replicator is destroyed, which might have enabled that Replicator, which could withstand the salt water, to reach the shore and start replicating again.
Beneath the Surface. Despite the stamp that overrode their memories, Jack does eventually listen to Daniel’s persistent assertions that something is wrong and that they aren’t where they belong.
Fail Safe. In one of those wonderful Sam and Daniel WonderTwins!™ moments, Daniel points out that the naquadah asteroid had to get into the solar system somehow. The two of them bounce half-sentences off each other and arrive at the solution: taking the asteroid into hyperspace and through the Earth.
Full Circle. “That’s good enough for me, Colonel. If Doctor Jackson is right, we have to find that Eye before Anubis does.”
Orpheus. The SGC mounts a rescue effort on the basis of Daniel’s fragmented memories.
Enemy Mine. Edwards is reluctant to listen to Daniel, but he defers to Daniel’s expertise and kneels before the Unas tribes. Daniel is successful at working out a treaty for the naquadah mines.
The Lost City. Daniel makes the most bizarre logic leaps ever and uses a crossword puzzle to figure out the coordinates to a working ZPM.
Lockdown. Daniel suggests forcing Anubis to use his powers openly. Jack accepts the suggestion and puts the entire SGC on lockdown, a stalemate that ends only because Anubis manages to work his way around the blocks they set for him.
Icon. Based on the few Goa’uld words in Daniel’s static-filled message, Jack orders an assault on the Gate in the Rand Protectorate.
Moebius. Jack agrees to Daniel’s insane proposal to go back in time to get a working ZPM. Depending on your feelings for this episode, you might prefer to include this one in the next section. :)
S9 Spoiler! Arthur’s Mantle. Daniel recognizes that the Mantle of Arthurian legend is actually sitting in Bill Lee’s lab and theorizes that it moved Sam and Mitchell to an alternate dimension. He also determines how to communicate with them, and gets them home.
S10 Spoiler! Pegasus Project. Daniel’s theories lead them to Morgan le Fay in Atlantis, and he recognizes her for the real thing.
The Quest. The team follows Daniel’s interpretations of the virtues, culminating in his walking through the fire to get them to the Sangraal – or its hologram.
That gives us total of twenty-three episodes in which Daniel’s wilder theories were accepted. Two of these are borderline – it might not have been a good idea to accept Daniel’s suggestion – but even if we take those two out, that gives us twenty-one times when people listen to Daniel’s proposals, as opposed to six times when they didn’t.
And how about those times when people listened to Daniel, and it was definitely a mistake to do so?
The Nox. Daniel urged them to capture Apophis, despite having no back-up. By the time the dust settles, they’ve died and the Nox have kicked them off the planet.
Full Circle. “Nothing will happen to the people of
S9 Spoiler! Ethon. Daniel urges a peaceful solution with a psychopath. The Prometheus bites the dust… and, in the end, the planet does, too.
For those that hate Seasons 9-10 and prefer to assert that Moebius moved us into an AU with fish in Jack’s pond and “our” classic team is still living happily ever after, you can add Moebius to the list. Lockdown also might be moved to the “not such a good idea” list, or possibly to the “best idea under the circumstances, but there really wasn’t a good choice” list.
Conclusion: Daniel is not always right. And when he is, his opinion is respected a lot more often than not.
Daniel is unsure of himself, his role at the SGC, and whether he has ever really accomplished anything worthwhile.
This one has some actual canonical basis, but its accuracy is dependent on the timing of the story.
“You can never reach enlightenment if you do not believe you are worthy.”
“Then I guess we may have a problem.”
It’s clear, from Daniel’s discussion with Oma in that otherplace before his death, that Daniel has harbored a deep distrust in his own accomplishments. However, by the end of that episode, Daniel has accepted that he’s done the best he can, and he willingly Ascends.
Orpheus. “I used to feel like I didn't belong – anywhere, really. I think I thought that this whole Ascension thing would change that. And now I'm realizing that the sacrifices were far too great, and my life here is far too important to just leave behind. I guess what I'm trying to say is that for the first time in my life, I feel like I'm a part of something – something important.”
Any lingering uncertainties about his decision to return to the mortal plane are put to rest. Daniel is sure of himself, his place at the SGC, and his friends.
[I personally think that Daniel was pretty confident of himself in the second and third seasons, too, and that it was the definite change in direction at the SGC in seasons four and five that put a dent in his self-confidence. That, however, is my personal opinion only.]
Conclusion: While it might be legitimate to portray an uncertain Daniel in early seasons, and it is definitely canonical to portray an uncertain Daniel in S5, once Daniel descends in S7, he is confident about himself and his role at the SGC.
Despite an abusive, miserable childhood without any love after his parents' horrific deaths, Daniel is sweet and kind to everyone.
First things first, shall we?
The only definite canon we know about Daniel’s childhood is his date of birth, that he witnessed his parents’ deaths when he was eight years old, and that his grandfather would not/could not adopt him. Any other assertion regarding Daniel’s childhood is fanon.
In other words, abused!Daniel is a fanon trope without any basis in canon whatsoever. This was thoroughly discussed, with some very interesting commentary, over here.
No one is going to suggest that it was pleasant for Daniel to see his parents die, or that he had a wonderful life in foster care – or maybe he did. Who knows? That’s the point, isn’t it?
So much for the miserable childhood. What about the “sweet and kind” to everyone part?
I will control my snickers and point out just a few of the times that Daniel’s snippiness is in full view.
Fifth Race. When Sam and the others are trapped on the planet with two suns, several scientists are assigned to the problem. They describe their findings to Hammond, who turns and asks Daniel, “Do you understand what he just said?”
Daniel answers dryly, “It sounds like they have no idea.”
The scientist protests, “Well, actually it’s not ‘no idea,’ sir. Just… not much of one yet.” Another adds, “But we’re working on it!”
Later, when Jack has drawn his detailed diagram of the DHD, Daniel comes hurrying into the room where the scientists are, interrupting them with the news that Jack has the solution. As Hammond, Jack, and Janet rush to the control room, Daniel unceremoniously dumps Jack’s mysterious machine (I’ve seen it dubbed a mini-ZPM by SGA fans, and I personally find that hilarious) on the table in front of them.
“Here, you guys can work on that for a while.”
The scientists stare at it, and one asks, “What is it?”
Completely out of patience, Daniel hurries out of the room and calls over his shoulder, “No idea – well, not ‘no idea,’ just not much of one yet, but work on it!”
I watched The Fifth Race half a dozen times before I picked up on that one... and now I can't watch it without snickering.
Past and Present. Daniel in the briefing room, contemptuously trailing his hand along the back of
Shades of Grey. “We drew straws. I lost.”
Window of
The Sentinel. Kershaw says sneeringly, “I feel better just knowing there’s an archeologist watching our backs.”
Daniel holds up his knife and asks brightly, “Yeah. Which end do the bullets go in, again?”
Fallen. “Did I say all I know…?”
I know there are lots and lots more of these. I only picked six, practically at random. Feel free to leave your favorites in the comments. :)
Conclusion: Yes, Daniel can be a genuinely nice guy. He can also be rude, sarcastic, annoying, and snarky. Since we know nothing of his childhood years after his parents died, his years in foster care may or may not have been happy. Either way, they probably had a large impact on his personality, since most of us are shaped by our experiences.
Despite his staunch pacifism, Daniel is forced to kill – and is emotionally shattered as a result.
Why, yes, Daniel sees violence as a last result! Why, no, he is not a pacifist! Which means that while he may not like killing, he will hardly be destroyed by the necessity of doing so.
For a slightly longer-winded debunking of this fanon assertion, and some highly entertaining discussions by the wonderful people who like to comment on these posts, you can wander over here.
Conclusion: Daniel has never been a pacifist. He doesn't like killing, but he will not be emotionally destroyed when he is forced to do so.
Daniel's naiveté and innocence has been tragically torn from him by all the horrors that have been inflicted upon him (or he has somehow managed to preserve it, despite all odds).
Too many people confuse idealism with innocence. Daniel possesses a marvelous idealism, yes. But he wasn’t an innocent, even in the movie.
Daniel has survived years in the cutthroat world of academia. He’s gone on digs and coped with primitive conditions – a survival skill that probably came in good stead during his time on
Daniel has unquestionably gone through a lot in his years at the SGC. But so have his teammates, and he has always had the option of walking away. So far, he hasn’t.
Conclusion: Daniel didn’t have any naiveté or innocence to be tragically torn from him. On the other hand, he seems to have kept his idealism mostly intact, if somewhat battered, and we love him for it.
Daniel is a target for every psychopath or stalker in the universe, both on Earth and through the Stargate; he is invariably the one to be badly hurt.
There is no question that Daniel possesses oodles of charm, and he has used that – whether consciously or unconsciously, which is a topic for another day – for his own good, as well as the good of the SGC. There is a vast difference, though, between Daniel’s remarkable ability to be liked by people – people as diverse as General Hammond, Omoc, AU General!Jack, Lya, Colonel Chekov, Nem, Chaka, Jacob Carter, and many more that escape me at the moment – and the suggestion that Daniel is some kind of trouble magnet for stalkers of all shapes and sizes.
Daniel has actually been stalked by two women – Hathor and Shyla – and one Goa’uld, Osiris. (I don’t include Osiris as a woman, despite Sarah Gardener’s status as host, because Osiris-in-Sarah never displayed any interest in Daniel other than a desire to pump him for knowledge and kill him.) Kira didn’t stalk; she displayed interest, and Daniel returned it. Aris Boch seemed to take a rather bizarre liking to him, but the slight matter of Daniel’s real worth as a bounty tends to throw all of Boch’s actions and statements into doubt. (Actually, the reason why Aris Boch is such a fun character is that it’s nearly impossible to take anything he says or does at face value.) He has been abducted five times: by Nem; Chaka; Vala in Prometheus Unbound; RepliCarter; and S10 Spoiler! Adria. (We can call it six times if you include Machello’s body theft.) He is harassed repeatedly by Vala in S9, and one might also argue for S10 (I know I would!). He went missing in TBFTGOG. In all other cases of imprisonment or abduction, Daniel wasn’t singled out; he had the rest of SG-1 along as company.
Sam, in contrast, has been stalked, to greater or lesser degrees, by Narim, who used her voiceprint in his home; by the Ashrak after Jolinar; by Vishnoor in Prisoners, until Linea placed her under her protection; by Orlin, who watched her for hours before making his presence known and refused to go away when she asked, and then tried to flirt with her in the body of a small boy; by Felger, who uses her to fuel his fantasies; and by Fifth, who went so far as to make himself a companion in her image. Jonas Hanson belongs on the list somewhere, although I can’t quite figure out how to classify him. [I refuse to put Pete on the “stalking” list. Discuss below if you care to do so.] She was harassed by Rodney McKay (I am speaking of SG-1 canon only), although he was a lot worse in the AU of Moebius, and the Lucian
What was it we were saying about Daniel as stalker magnet…?
And no, Daniel does not have a reserved bed in the infirmary because he’s there more frequently than anyone else.
Conclusion: Daniel does not have any claims on being a personal target for trouble, because all the members of SG-1 have been there, done that, and gotten the T-shirt.
Daniel’s many accomplishments are overlooked or ignored, or claimed by someone else (usually Sam).
This one baffles me, and the addendum in parentheses frankly angers me.
48 Hours. General Hammond, on the phone to the President: “I'll get our best man for the job on a plane right away.” To Daniel: “The best man I was talking about is you. We need a liaison in
There has never been any evidence that Daniel is marginalized or denigrated, or that his accomplishments are ignored. He is clearly respected by everyone from
As for Sam claiming the credit for Daniel’s accomplishments… Really, I don’t comprehend the Sam-hate that is so rampant among many Daniel fans. (I’m talking gen here, by the way, as that’s what I read. I understand that among other circles, Sam-hate can be a lot worse.) SG-1 is a team. Sam and Daniel work marvelously together, completing each other’s sentences and arriving at the solution simultaneously. And while Sam’s physical solution often owes its existence to Daniel’s initial inspiration, there has never been any suggestion that Sam takes the credit for herself and tries to leave Daniel out of it.
The only thing remotely canonical about this strange bit of fanon is that Daniel has never received any formal recognition for his years of dedication. Jack and Sam were both promoted twice, and were presented with medals in Secrets; Teal’c has a seat on the Jaffa Council, and was honored, together with Bra’tac, with the title of being “Brother to all
This does not reflect on the people in the SGC and their appreciation of Daniel. It does reflect on a general lack of appreciation for civilians in a military setting, but that isn’t the actual topic under discussion, is it?
Conclusion: The SGC has always recognized and appreciated Daniel’s dedication to his work and his many successes. And while Sam is part of the military machine and has received formal recognition three times – two promotions and a medal – in her years at the SGC, that does not mean that she claimed credit for Daniel’s accomplishments.
Daniel hides emotional and physical pain behind his constant cheerful smiles and his constant refrain of "I'm fine,” even if he is on the verge of collapse.
The “I’m fine” fanon was pretty thoroughly debunked already. I’ll add only two points here.
First, Daniel is much better at hiding physical pain than emotional pain. In almost every instance when true emotional pain is involved – Sha’re’s abduction, the Gamekeeper, the birth of Shifu, Sha’re’s death – he openly admits to being less than “fine.”
Second, it’s bizarre to suggest that when the team is off-world, Daniel will hide physical injury and insist that he’s fine. Daniel is too much of a team player; he would never jeopardize the rest of SG-1 by pretending to be well when he actually isn’t capable of doing his part. Lying about his health off-world is tantamount to risking the team’s safety, and unless it’s nothing more than a mild headache, Daniel would not do it.
For a more detailed discussion – especially in the comments! – you can try looking here.
Conclusion: Every person occasionally hides physical and emotional pain. Daniel is no better or worse at it than anyone else.
So what's wrong with Saint Daniel, anyway? How can a canon character become a Mary Sue?
Is there anything all that wrong with writing with Saint Daniel? Is the over-exaggeration of his good traits any worse than over-emphasizing his good looks and devastating blue eyes? The word "cerulean" should be stricken permanently from fanfic writers' dictionaries when describing eyes, by the way.
Well, yes. There are two good reasons to avoid Saint Daniel:
1. He's not canon. I don't need to expand upon that any more than I already have. :)
2. Saint Daniel isn't interesting. There's nothing wrong, per se, with admiring your favorite character to the point of being slightly hero-worshipful when you write about him. But Saint Daniel isn't Dr. Daniel Jackson, member of SG-1; he's Mary Sue Daniel, and he's incredibly boring.
While many people use the term "Mary Sue" solely to describe an original character that is actually a self-insert by the author, that's not entirely fair; original characters, even those that include an element of wish-fulfillment on the author's part, can often be engaging and entertaining. I think a better definition for a "Mary Sue" is this: any character that takes over the story at the expense of everyone else, so that the character is the sole focus of not only the storyline but also the characters, is a Mary Sue.
By that definition, Mary Sues don't have to be original characters. One of the most famous Mary Sues, in fact, was Star Trek: The Next Generation's Wesley Crusher, who was a genius teenage boy who consistently knew better than the highly trained, intelligent adults around him. A more contemporary example would be Lana Lang on Smallville, who is so loved by the other characters on the show and is so ridiculously perfect that many people have suggested that the show should be called Lanaville instead. On our own beloved Stargate: SG-1, many fans who loved Sam in the first years of the show became irritated with her in the later seasons, when Major Samantha Carter, capable astrophysicist and soldier, became Super!Sam, inexplicable expert in all fields of science and someone who was praised by all the other characters to the point of nausea. (That isn’t my personal opinion, although I do think that Sam has been very badly written on more than one occasion.) And when an author takes a character from the show and warps him to the point where nearly everyone else in the story is practically worshipping at his feet – or agonizing that they haven’t worshipped at his feet in the past – then that character has been rewritten as a Mary Sue.
Mary Sues aren't likeable because they're too perfect to be truly sympathetic. When a character's greatest "faults" are his self-effacing humility and emotional vulnerability - which is exaggerated to the point where the character wouldn't be able to function in a line at the bank, much less in a stressful position as a member of a first-contact field team - there is nothing left with which the reader can empathize. And when the other characters spend their time pondering on the wonderfulness of the character, or regretting that they didn't listen to He-Who-Is-Always-Right, or mentally (or physically) patting him on the head… Well, you might have a clear grasp of Saint Daniel (or, as is often the case, Saint Danny), but you've probably lost a lot of your readers.
My person fanon opinion? No one who has read these posts even casually would suggest that I dislike Daniel. I absolutely adore him, but it's despite – or even because – of his character flaws. I love him for being stubborn and arrogant and pushy; it's those self-same character traits that give him tenacity in the face of the most incredible adversity, and enough confidence in his own talents to make his insanely wild leaps of logic to find the unusual solution, and the determination to stand up and tell the truth even when it's not popular – or even safe. You can't have one side of the coin without the other; and while sainthood is something that is admirable and respected, it's not the right description for Daniel… and I wouldn't like him very much if it actually was!
"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"
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In your "always right" list,you didn't mention "Politics", where Jack and Sam were "it's not that we don't believe you...it's just that we don't believe you." about the AU and Jack requested Daniel hold the AU story in reserve when dealing with Kinsey, who they all met for the first time. Granted, when Daniel did use it against Kinsey, it didn't work...but it's KINSEY! He's always had his own agenda.
Also, regarding Daniel's many accomplishments, you didn't list "Disclosure" (http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/6.17_%22Disclosure%22_Transcript) when Maj. Davis explains "In 1945, a team of scientists hoping to find a military application for the device successfully established a stable wormhole by a process of random dialling. It was, for all intents and purposes, a lucky accident, which they were unable to repeat. The Gate remained inactive. Until eight years ago, when this man,
(He clicks a button, and a picture and biographical details of Daniel come on screen)
Dr. Daniel Jackson, joined the programme. Dr. Jackson successfully deciphered the symbols on the Gate, allowing us to begin routine exploration of alien worlds."(I know, it's S6...it's the scene with the infamous birth location! You have to see it! It's a clip show anyway.)
Also SEASON NINE SPOILERS Sheng Xiao-Yi (I may have misspelt her name) in the Scourge was very praising of Daniel as the man who solved the riddle of the STargate. Nerus was praising Daniel along with Teal'c and original recipe SG-1 when he arrived in "Beachhead". Um, I think that's it.
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I kind of made the AU from TBFTGOG all-inclusive with Daniel's pushing everyone to try the gate address and try and stop Apophis, but maybe that wasn't clear enough.
Yes to Davis and Shen! (Sheng?) And I laughed out loud when Nerus is billing and cooing over the classic team, and gets to Mitchell who looks all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, and Nerus just looks at him and says, "Meh." Poor Mitchell. :)
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Thinky comments later, but for now:
The word "cerulean" should be stricken permanently from fanfic writers' dictionaries when describing eyes, by the way.
A-MEN!
I'm so tired of fics extolling his eyes. Sam's too. Also, Jack's eyes are not chocolate. I doubt he wants you to eat them.
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Hee! :)
You remind me of the marvelously snarky Zoomway, from my old fandom: Fanfic Cliches. Check out the first picture on the page, and you'll see why. And make sure you scroll down to see her delightful Mary Sue.
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The only thing remotely canonical about this strange bit of fanon is that Daniel has never received any formal recognition for his years of dedication.
See, I just assume that Daniel's not too concerned about the medals and the ceremonies, because he knows that he has the respect of people that matter and that's much more valuable than a medal on a wall. And also that Daniel makes a ton of money. It's part of my personal fandon, I've never really stated it explicitly in fic, but any time I write, in the back of my head that Daniel makes six figures (rates for 2007 are here (http://www.opm.gov/oca/07tables/html/slst.asp) but it was in the six-figure range as far back as '04 and I'm assuming Daniel is at the high end of that) and is getting hazard pay on top of it. Medals, shemedals. ;)
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Saint Daniel is the post I wanted do most, but I was afraid to start with it. And I'm glad I got some practice in first! Saint Daniel is so boring in comparison with the real thing, anyway. :)
I agree that the same Daniel who doesn't seem to be overly troubled at his outside reputation probably doesn't much care about medals. I also don't see him caring much about cash, although
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Mary Sue Canon Characters/Fanon Characters
But I disagree with the assessment about the O/C that "takes over the story" from the canon characters or is their focus being an undesireable Sue.
I just initiated a Mary Sue discussion on a board that I moderate. The thing about Mary Sue (or Marty Sue for the males) is that they aren't limited to the perfect character or even the author's avatar. Some are villian-Sues or anti-Sues, yet they are still Sues. If the bad guy keeps winning when he shouldn't or the character is so vile as to be unbelievable along with other impossible traits you have a Sue. Your idea of a self-effacing character who can't function in line at the bank is spot on.
However, having recently researched the various websites discussing Mary Sues and the Litmus Tests for a Sue, the only conclusion I could derrive is that they think all O/C characters are Sues. Without exception they define an avatar for an author as a particularly egregious example. I disagree. And I disagree that a Sue is necessarily obnoxious. Most are. But not all.
Personally, I think an author's wish fullfillment avatar can be fun especially in humor and parody. Fanfiction is for fun. So there is nothing inherently wrong with an author's avatar. Who among us wouldn't like a peak into Stargate Command on our level? Who wouldn't like to meet their dream Daniel? You might like to meet him but I don't think an intelligent reader would hang around for long. But who can execute a truly interesting one?
I have no problem with an interesting avatar as another POV for a story. Let's see the SGC in operation from an outsider's perspective. Dietcokechic wrote a wonderful series called "Barista" about the perspective of a college student working in a trendy coffee bar where the Team drifts through over the years to become acquainted with her through her four years of school and grad school. It was a fun look at all the episodes through an outsider's comings and goings. I recommend it.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1114562/1/
Another author's avatar I find fun is in a parody story about a middle-aged menopausal woman who is Jack's neighbor. She's a riot.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3499671/1/
But your post is about St. Daniel as a Sue. I applaud your well crafted analysis. The citings are impressive. Thank you. Let's hope it inspires people to move away from St. Daniel into something more interesting.
Re: Mary Sue Canon Characters/Fanon Characters
You don't care for the automatic assumption that an OC is a Mary Sue. I strongly agree with that. There are certainly OCs out there that are engaging and interesting. My caveat, as I said, is whether or not the character takes over the story at the expense of other characters. If a character does so, it doesn't matter to me if it's an OC or a canon character; he or she has become a Mary Sue.
On the other hand, your third paragraph suggests that any poorly-realized character is automatically a Sue. I don't think I would agree with that assessment, but maybe I'm misunderstanding you. I would say that all Mary Sues are boring, but not all boring characters are Mary Sues. Does that make sense?
You mention that there's nothing wrong with indulging in a little wish fulfillment and writing yourself into the story, having your avatar meet Daniel, go through the Stargate, and so forth. Of course there isn't! The problem is when the author expects readers to enjoy their character. ;) Not every story written should be exposed to public scrutiny.
I'm familiar with the Barista series, but I liked them a lot more in the earlier seasons, when Kira was truly an outsider looking in. Once Kira became more integrated into the team's lives, she lost a lot of charm for me. To each their own, though. :)
Thanks for your compliments on the post! And I'm always looking forward to new fics. Daniel is ever so much more interesting than Saint Daniel! :)
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I'm with you--Saint Daniel is BORING AND ANNOYING AND I DON'T WANT TO READ HIM. Definitely don't want to write him, either. Working on it.
These posts will be a great resource for me when I finally make time to start seriously writing some SG-1 fanfic. (Bit caught up in RL right now.)
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Like when Jack ruffles Daniel's hair, in Into the Fire? ;)
Oh, yes - I don't want to read Saint Daniel! And as you say, making sure I don't write Saint Daniel might be a little bit harder. Daniel love is insidious, I think.
Glad you're enjoying the posts. :)
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I like that Daniel isn't always sweetness and light to everyone, and I'm generally happy accepting the "Too much time around Jack O'Neill" explanation, but there are two instances of snippy Daniel that just set me on edge. One you mentioned ("He read your report?") and the other is when Dr. Lee is trying to get the bracelets off in early season 9. Bill's all "I'm just waiting for the day when I do something IMPORTANT!" and Daniel says "We're all waiting for that day, Bill."
I mean, I get it, in the sense that he's been linked to Vala for all this time and she seems/seemed to bring out the temper-tantrum prone child in him, but that was just low.
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Vala bringing out the worst in Daniel is one of the main reasons I don't like her on the show... But ouch, poor Bill. He most definitely does not deserve a comment like that from Daniel, who is not only a friend, but probably his superior (in the civilian chain of command, even though they're not in the same branch of sciences). And that line of dialogue is exactly what I meant about Bill's competence fluctuating according to the current gag of the script.
I like competent Bill. Save the "fumbling scientist" jokes for Felger! (OTOH, Bill theorizing about "tiny little legs" was utterly hilarious, and didn't take away from his competence in my eyes at all.)
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And then in Watergate "If you're implying everything Russian made is of poor quality,actuall the sub is Swiss." To which Daniel replys,"So it occaisional catches fire but keeps perfect time?" He then appologizes with "Sorry, I've been spending too much time around Jack O'Neill" love that scene.
I really like Bitchy!Daniel but I also like kind caring Daniel and it is the combination that makes him my favorite character.
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YES! That's it in a nutshell! Why make him bland when we're given this delightfully complex character on a platter?
Although honestly, S9-10 Daniel seems to have lost a lot of his academic passions. Dropping a book on the floor to make a point, and writing in its margins? Not saying a word of protest, not even wincing, when books are burned? Shame on you, Doctor Jackson! :)
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S10 Daniel
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It's the flaws
And after Daniel descends in S7, actually, he's not so confident. He's more on a sure footing when he doens't know who he is, but it takes until Orpheus for him to really kind of settle back in his skin (this mostly shows up in looks that he gives his team, and Jonas is the only one he really confesses his not being too sure about this whole thing).
One of the things I love about Daniel is this split between being so confident in some areas that he'll slap anyone down and when he's right, he's right. And other times--not so much. There's big holes there, thank god, because the man would be unbearable otherwise.
And on the Sam/Daniel front, you could do a whole new posting. Yes, they argue stuff, but it's totally with respect for each other. I love in The Sentinel how the NID chick is complaining how it took them 48 hours to decode the lock, and Sam sends Daniel in to 'shave a couple days off that'. Yeah, Sam, you tell 'em. And then there's Cold Lazarus, with my favorite Sam and Daniel working together when they nab Teal'c's staff weapon to perform a 'test' (shooting it) in the Gateroom and with the alarms going off Teal'c asks them if they got permission, and they both look at each other and they're both, 'oh, yeah, sure we did.' Uh huh!
I actually like that they're good enough friends to snipe at each other a little--Daniel teasing Sam about someone having a crush on her. Sam every now and then looking like she'd like to pound Daniel -- like in Watergate when he's poking his hand into the water and Sam is at the back of the sub like anyone sensible would be (at least in her opinion).
But, to me, the classic Daniel uncertainty (compared with Sam's far more 'I'm sure approach') comes in The Serpent's Venom. Daniel keeps thinking out loud about how maybe they got the mine reprogrammed wrong--and everyone keeps looking at him, so he keeps shutting it down and saying, 'no, I'm sure.' It fits far more with the nature of his work to be uncertain--he's used to dealing with the fluidity of the past. And history gets revised all the time as we come to know more. And then language is even more fluid.
Since this has turned into mini-rant here, I will add I love Past and Present. To me that's classic Daniel--he's being a total bastard if that's what he needs to do to get the job done. (God help anyone when this man is fighting for something, because he'll fight dirty.) This, to me, is where Jack and Daniel actually have a lot in common--and often where they clash. They both have something of an attitude of do what it takes to make it right, worry about personal cost later. It's just they offen thing the 'right' thing is something that the other one doesn't think is all that important. In Past and Present it always struck me as a classic case of Daniel not thinking too much of how this might hit others--he can be sometimes astonishingly lacking in understanding and empathy when he gets focused. (Another flaw I find endearing.)
The last thing is on medals--my bet is Daniel's always talked them out of it. In The Scorge, S9, Daniel is quick to deflect Shen's flattery and praise by turning it back on her--a nice way to compliment her and not have to notice his own accomplishments. Same goes for when Mitchell tries to praise Daniel for finding a way out in Ethon. He still tends to be a glass half emtpy guy when it comes to his accomplishments--they may not be anything he really values. Or maybe he'd rather wait for the final talley--and for future historians to decide if he did anything useful.
With all this great fictional meat to use--why would you want to put frosting on it instead of all this great stuff?
Re: It's the flaws
But while Janet and Sam were working with the little white guy who came back and was so sick, Jack and Daniel come staggering back through the Gate and are suddenly fine. Their medical checkup is fine, much to their consternation. :) Then Daniel has the video of the planet playing, Jack comes to see him, Daniel throws a tantrum and shoves half the files on the floor, goes to Janet, realizes he's fine again and... light bulb! Something about the video is affecting him. He goes back to his office and points this out to the others. THEN Sam does the analysis, and the ep plays out. Yes, it's Sam who realizes that the symbiosis is so close because "I talk to my planets, okay?" I do love Sam. :)
Sam and Daniel as friends - their quirks and the way they complete each other's sentences, and the friendly antaganism, and the respect without the chain-of-command issues... It's a lovely thing. I will always and forever be a Jack and Daniel friendship girl, but I've gotten more and more enjoyment out of the Sam and Daniel friendship. And I believe I have mentioned, once or twice, how much I love the Teal'c and Daniel friendship. You might observe a trend. :)
Great insight there on Serpent's Venom. Consider especially how, in the scene you mention, Daniel keeps opening and closing the book - a kind of physical metaphor, there. And that's classic Sam and Daniel symbiosis, how they finally solved that problem: "The Phoenicians didn't use zero."
This, to me, is where Jack and Daniel actually have a lot in common--and often where they clash. They both have something of an attitude of do what it takes to make it right, worry about personal cost later.
I like that. Except that there are too many times for Jack when "make it right" is "do what he is ordered to do." I don't think he likes it much, but he will follow orders. And the only orders Daniel follows are the ones in his own head... And really, that is a scary place.
he can be sometimes astonishingly lacking in understanding and empathy when he gets focused. (Another flaw I find endearing.)
Oh, yeah. As I said: The Enemy Within, Torment of Tantalus, even his reaction to the assault on Melosha in Broca Divide. And it's definitely his flaws that make him so endearing. Saint Daniel is so BORING in comparison with the delightfully prickly and irritating real thing. :)
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I agree with just about everything you said, especially the part about he and Sam working as a team and not stealing each other work.
And while I am sure those who promulgate Saint Daniel do so thinking he is just the bestest ever, the result is a character is not only boring and tedious, but unlikeable (for me at least). Because if he is so, so, awesome, it means someone has to suffer. Saint!Daniel is the succubus of other characters' positive aspects.
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What a great twist of phrase!
I don't understand Sam hate. Maybe because I'm such a teamy goodness fan. Jack and Daniel friendship were my first love, and probably always will be, but... team. That's Sam and Daniel, and Sam and Teal'c, and yes, even Sam and Jack. And Teal'c and Daniel. And Teal'c and Jack. By denigrating one, you're essentially denigrating them all.
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And Vala -- ugh. I've written an entire anti-Daniel/Vala meta (http://green-grrl.livejournal.com/48342.html) (which is hugely spoilerific, up to and most especially including Unending). The thing is, I love a lot of things about Vala as a character. But trying to reinterpret her harassment of Daniel as the basis for a relationship is creepy as hell to me. If Felger were so blatantly forward in his attraction to Sam, he'd be fired in a nanosecond.
Um, anyway... great meta!
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I don't know about seriously including Anise, as she never actually approached Daniel in any way. I know the commentary talks a lot about the potential storyline, but they never really did anything with it. In the same vein, I didn't add Martouf - he was definitely attracted to Sam, not just Jolinar-in-Sam. But he never acted upon it.
I hate the whole background of Vala and Daniel's interaction. I can't even call it a relationship. I'll wait to read your meta when the time comes, though.
If we'd gotten Vala without the stalking, I would have liked her a lot. As it is... I'm reaching to my old fandom again, but there was a character in Lois and Clark who seriously harrassed Clark in Season 1. Because it was a woman stalking a man, everyone found it more funny than offensive. No one seemed to turn it around and say, "If this was a man trying to convince an amnesiac woman that they're in a torrid but secret relationship, we'd be screaming bloody murder." Vala's harassment of Daniel really, really gets on my nerves. Still does, even now.
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Part 1
The Saint and Martyr characterizations have always struck me as emotional H/C fic. I wasn't aware that this trend was so strong in gen fic, too. I come to the table having read mostly slash fics and given the OTP nature of J/D in that genre, the Season 4/5 tensions and the Sam/Jack flirting pass through the "look how mean they're being to Daniel" filter in a lot of fics. I'm not crazy about it but I guess I understood it as a given in the slash fandom. I am surprised that this extends to other, non-J/D parts of fandom. Huh.
I hadn't noticed that most people were not on a first name basis with Daniel. I loved the character point of Hammond referring to him as, "Dr. Jackson," but I hadn't really noticed other supporting characters' form of address. He's a bit more standoffish/reserved than I'd noticed.
...but at the age of thirty-plus, Daniel cannot reasonably be called “young.”
OK, after I wiped a tear away at the thought anyone over 30 couldn't be considered, "young," I had to reluctantly agree. (It's hell getting old!) It does bother me that Daniel gets referred to as young so often. He has seen and survived incredible tragedy in his life, so he isn't young in a spiritual sense. (Hey, we're talking about a guy who existed as nothing but immortal energy for a year.) As for his physical age, well, I guess he's the youngest on the team but he isn't young as in being a callow youth. In fic, though, most uses of "younger man" or its close relatives is going to irk me for reasons beyond its inaccuracy. ;)
Daniel forgives in circumstances that I don't think I would be able to and I think it's at least a bit of fanon that comes from exaggerating a canon trait. It does get a bit on my nerves when he sounds more like the Dalai Lama than Daniel Jackson, though.
Re: Part 1
You're right, I think, that the saint/martyr aspect is exaggerated most in h/c fics. But h/c is by no means restricted to slash! Although I have noted, of late, that a lot of the more popular h/c writers do write slash as well. So it might be someone with that perspective choosing to write gen, but still writing from that frame of mind - that is, that everyone is meeeeeeaan to poor wee Daniel, whose beautiful blue eyes look extra pretty when they're glistening with tears. Ugh.
I hadn't noticed that most people were not on a first name basis with Daniel. I loved the character point of Hammond referring to him as, "Dr. Jackson," but I hadn't really noticed other supporting characters' form of address. He's a bit more standoffish/reserved than I'd noticed.
Oh, ITA on Hammond! As for the rest of it, I was actually pretty surprised when I did the research. Landry and Lam referring to Daniel as "Daniel" in dialogue with others stood out for me, but I honestly expected to get a lot more "call me Daniel" than there actually is. Which just goes to show why these posts can actually serve a purpose. :)
I guess he's the youngest on the team
Actually, he isn't. This came up in discussion on a previous post and I got called on that assumption. Sam was born in '66 or '67 - I don't remember which, exactly. It surprised me, too, because I would have thought that would make her too young to fly in the Gulf War, and also too young for someone who led a relatively normal military brat's childhood to get as far as she has. But it's canon from a screencap from Entity. I can try and dig up the thread if you're interested.
I think once your children are approaching the teenage years, you have to reluctantly concede that you can't really call yourself "young" any longer. That's my attitude, anyway, and I'm the same age as MS, not Daniel!
He has seen and survived incredible tragedy in his life, so he isn't young in a spiritual sense.
Oooh. I like that. At the same time, though, his idealism and enthusiasm does give him a younger soul. Sort of.
There's a huge difference between Daniel having an essentially forgiving nature - which, as you say, is canon - and Daniel forgiving everyone for everything. Which he doesn't.
I like my Daniel just the way he is, thank you! :)
Part 2
A lot of Martyr Daniel fic contains a huge dose of Sam hate. I've commented up there about how that distresses me. A few of the writers have seized on writer errors as "proof" of how awful Sam is to Daniel. Examples such as, "The Tomb," where Sam the astrophysicist is looking at a human skeleton and telling Daniel the archaeologist that the marks on them are tooth marks. I vaguely recall a line in (S7? S8?) where Sam is either claiming to have done something that Daniel did -- or not correcting someone's misimpression. I noticed it at the time and it irked me but that was because I knew the writers were the culprits. I never thought Sam was the type to steal credit.
In fact, I can think of two instances where she's clearly not that sort off the top of my head. From the beginning, "I knew I'd like you!" when she might well resent a guy who waltzed in and got to take a trip she'd worked so hard to be a part of said a lot about who she is. She was open to ideas and, once Daniel gave her the clue, she was there to join him on the intellectual journey. When she and Hailey are arguing on the planet of the bug zappers and Hailey's petulant because she thinks Jack has chosen Sam's side, Sam explains how it isn't who's right, it's how to act given the tow ideas that will endanger the fewest people. She just isn't competitive in the sense of crushing the intellectual opposition to make herself bigger.
The most interesting thing about how fanon differs from canon is what it says about us, the readers/writers of fanfic. Characters get folded and spindled to make them fit more stereotypical characterizations. Daniel's wish to avoid violence means he often gets "feminized" and made more emotionally fragile, for instance. Just thinking about this has been fun. Thank you!
Re: Part 2
Daniel is a survivor. The idea that he'd stick around an SGC that ignored him or treated him as stupid is laughable to me. He has too much of an ego to be any body's doormat. Nobody like that would be on SG-1. They have to be able to stand up for their beliefs, their thoughts, their convictions or else they're no good to the team.
As I observed at one point, the Daniel in some of these fics would have trouble standing in a line in the bank, much less operating on a front-line team. He's a grown-up. He's intelligent. He's determined and demanding. Why in the world would he carefully lie down to serve as everyone's doormat?
If you could remember the scene in which Sam supposedly takes credit for Daniel's work, I'd appreciate it. I can easily see people like Felger giving Sam credit for everything, but Sam herself? You mentioned in your comments on the first half that a lot of Sam hate comes from J/D fans, which means they're viewing everything through as harsh a lens as possible. It's unfair to comment on stuff I don't read, but I can only say I feel sorry for writers who fixate so much on their OTP that they miss the TEAM that makes SG-1 so wonderful.
Characters get folded and spindled to make them fit more stereotypical characterizations.
And I'd call that lazy writing. Not your phrasing; that I like quite a lot. :)
Glad you're enjoying!
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I think this is the key point about Mary Sues- that other characters are written badly or as unimportant compared to them. It also depends on the story you're telling. Are you telling an SG-1 story? Or are you telling an original story set in the Stargate universe, that incorporates some of the canon characters? The author had better know. I happen to like both kinds of story, but even I'd be a bit miffed if I started reading something billed as an SG-1 story to find that SG-1 hardly appeared.
A favorite OC story of mine is Jb's Guardian of the Gate- an OC point of view- but definitely an SG-1 story. SG-1 does not suffer because they're not the viewpoint characters.
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I'm not even sure it's a question of importance as much as it's the warping of other characters to fit the storyline and make your character "it" - whether it's an OC or a regular character of the show you've recreated in your own percieved image.
Jb's Guardian of the Gate is major whoa. Painful and believeable and a great character study of SG-1. But phew! The language!