Canon vs. Fanon, part 2: Oh, Danny-boy

[fignewton]

This section of the Canon vs. Fanon series will focus on a fanon affectation which can be seriously irritating to many readers and might be enough to stop some of them from reading a story entirely. I can't speak for anyone other than myself, of course; but I've seen many other fans making the same complaint, so I don't think I'm alone in my feelings.

I would like to stress that I am not trying to sneer or denigrate the writing abilities of any fanfic authors out there. The canon vs. fanon discussion is, hopefully, mostly objective analysis, even if it's through my own lens. My personal opinion, added at the very end, is obviously subjective; but as it's personal, and not an attempt at a sweeping condemnation, I hope that no one will be offended.

Brief recap: Canon is defined as anything directly shown during Stargate: The Movie or episodes of the show, with show superseding the movie when there's a contradiction. (Katherine has a photograph of Daniel aged three, or possibly four, shown with his foster parents in the movie vs. the canon from the show, which has Daniel losing his parents when he's eight.) Fanon is defined as widely-accepted concepts that appear in fanfic, but do have any real basis in canon.

Is he Daniel, or Danny?

The character is named Daniel Jackson, not Danny Jackson. (A middle name may or may not exist, but there's no widespread usage of any particular name, so it's not a fanon question.) This is canon. The idea that Jack often calls him "Danny" – whether  to indicate friendship or offer the comfort of familiarity – is fanon. And since there's so little basis for it, frequent sprinklings of "Danny" can be incredibly annoying, because (at least to me) it comes across as patronizing and belittling… and we all know how Daniel feels about that kind of attitude from Jack.

Let's catalog all the times that Jack calls Daniel something other than "Daniel":

Hathor. When Sam shoots Hathor in her symbiote sauna and the larvae catch fire, Daniel goes into shock. He screams, "No!" and stands there transfixed, ignoring the flames and the efforts to evacuate personnel from the room. Jack calls out to him to move, but Daniel just stands there, almost as catatonic as he'd been after Hathor first raped him – until Sam and Jack come and literally haul him away. As they grab his arms, Jack mutters, "Come on, Danny," in a tone that is unquestionably gentle.

ETA: mr_supermoose, in the comments below, noted another "Danny" in Hathor:  When Daniel suggested to Hammond that Hathor be allowed free reign in the base, Jack protested, "Whoa, Danny!" Can't believe I forgot that one, and much thanks for the reminder! I went back to rewatch it (such torture, I know!) and I would suggest that there's an element of the drawl here, even if it's not as prominent as it was in Prisoners. I'm not quite sure how to classify it, though, so we'll just stick with "casual" for this one.

The Serpent's Lair. "Spacemonkey… Yeah!" I don't think that needs any elaboration. :)

Prisoners. When Daniel is saved from strangulation (although, oddly, he calls it suffocation when he awakes) on Hadante and recovers in Linnea's quarters, he asks what happened. Putting on an Irish accent, Jack drawls, "Well, you actually won a fight, Danny-boy!" Others might disagree, but my personal take on this one was humorous sarcasm – the "Dannyboy" wasn't meant to be affectionate or comforting, but rather part of the put-on of the brogue.

Holiday. At the end of this excellent team episode, when Jack is momentarily in Daniel's body, he calls, "Oh, Danny-boy!" to get Daniel's attention. A bewildered "Jack" turns around to see… well, himself. (Brief timeout to gloat at how delicious this episode was, and how wonderfully the actors managed to capture the nuances of each others' characters to play them so perfectly.) Again, the nickname carries a flavor of humor more than anything else.

One False Step. Jack tells Teal'c that he's going to "work on this quarantine thing with Plant Boy here." I don't think anyone could possibly construe this as friendly; Jack and Daniel are working their way up to the "You see? See? See? See? See?" scene, and Jack's name-calling is exactly that: name-calling. More on this in a bit.

Demons. When SG-1 first enters the village and the natives flee in panic, Daniel tries to calm them down. A terrified woman slams the door in his face, leaving him to trail off, "…we're peaceful explorers." Jack says, in a sing-song voice, "They're not buying it, Danny." I actually caught this one by accident, as it's quite different in tone from any other instance; it wasn't an ep where I'd expect "Danny" to be. It's the most casual use of a nickname Jack ever uses. There is a flavor of sarcasm in his voice, but not much. This is actually the single example that might be used as a defense for the fanon "Danny" habit.

[ETA again: aurora_novarum mentioned the amazing "A little more time in Danny's world" from Reckoning. I hadn't included it, since Daniel himself is using the nickname, not someone else. But as long as we're being complete, we might as well include it. Sarcasm? Adding to the weight of the threat through flippancy? It's hard to classify, and anyway, the mind-bendingness of Reckoning deserves a long analytical post of its own. :) ]

And that's it, folks. After that point, Jack never calls Daniel anything other than "Daniel" again. (If I've missed something, please do let me know!) So we've got a sincere "Danny" once, a casual "Danny" twice, a flippant "Danny-boy" twice, and two nicknames, one affectionate and one cutting. There is no suggestion that the nicknames – even the infamous "Spacemonkey" – are every used again. Except for Demons, every one of these takes place during the first two years of the show. Yet there are many, many fanfic writers out there who seize on these six instances to make it fanon that Jack calls him "Danny," or refers to him as "Danny," on a regular basis, during all seasons. Even worse, I've seen authors use "Plant Boy" or a derivative as a friendly nickname, or even suggest that "Spacemonkey" is occasionally used by others, such as Jacob Carter (!) or Janet Frasier.

Like many other fanfic readers apparently do, I find this incredibly annoying. There are two reasons for this – one personal, and one based on canon. Leaving the personal reason aside for the end, I will suggest that there is strong evidence to support the assertion that, based on canon, Daniel wouldn't like it.

In my experience, most people prefer to be called by the name that they give for themselves. Daniel inevitably introduces himself as "Daniel," not "Danny." Even when taken completely out of the canon vs. fanon context, I believe that it is common courtesy to address someone by the name they prefer to be used. Keeping that common courtesy in mind, the canon context seems to show quite strongly that Daniel wouldn't like "Danny" at all.

Let's look at Gamekeeper first. The second time Daniel and Sam witness his parents' deaths, Daniel tries to talk to Mel and Claire and convince them to get out from underneath the coverstone. His father tells him brusquely, "Danny, go back outside."

Daniel repeats, "Danny?" in a tone of incredulity. Later, after the coverstone has fallen and Sam is trying to help him deal with the aftermath, he tells her, "He called me Danny, like I'm still… like I'm still a little kid."

So here, we clearly see that Daniel equates the nickname "Danny" with his childhood: with being dismissed as too young, as inconsequential, "a little kid." 

Later, in One False Step, when Jack and Daniel are arguing on the planet and Jack accuses him of being "a little flaky," Daniel's reply is delivered in a very deliberate tone: "And on a good day you can be a little ignorant and condescending!"

While the acrimony the two showed in this scene was exacerbated by the conditions on the planet, the underlying attitudes were surely real. We get a similar reaction in Need, when a sarcaphagus'd Daniel shouts at Jack, "You never show me any respect!" Again, this is a Daniel with a warped emotional response; but while Daniel might not have actually said that under ordinary circumstances, the underlying attitude has to exist for it to come out in such a fashion.

So we seem to have clear proof that Daniel dislikes being patronized, particularly by Jack. (Proof that Daniel dislikes being patronized by anybody is liberally sprinkled throughout the entire show.) I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that when we put these two things together – Daniel's equating of "Danny" as being dismissed as a child and his annoyance at being marginalized by Jack – we get a strong suggestion that "Danny" would irritate Daniel a lot more than it might give him warm, fuzzy feelings of comfort and friendship.

If there's anyone out there who would like to suggest that Daniel is used to being called "Danny" by people other than Jack, and that it is therefore reasonable to use it regularly in fanfiction, I will concede that there are two instances on the show. Neither of these, however, seems to serve as a basis for "Danny" as an acceptable nickname.

Summit/Last Stand. For some odd reason, Jacob Carter calls him "Danny" several times during this two-parter: when they're discussing the potential mission on Revanna, on Jacob's ship before Daniel slips into the role of Yu's lotar, and when the ship is about to crash on Revanna after the escape from the summit. Daniel seems to take it in stride.

However, this is Jacob we're talking about, the same guy who often calls his own daughter "Sammie." Now, I don't read Sam/Jack ship fic, but I really, really doubt that there are fanfic authors out there who have Jack calling her "Sammie" just because her father uses the nickname. I've certainly never seen it in any gen fic. It simply seems to be a habit of Jacob's: he tends to give people diminutive nicknames. Perhaps we should be grateful that Jack wasn't turned into "Jackie"?

ETA: jenniferjf points out that no, Jacob does not call his daughter "Sammie" on a regular basis. In fact, he never does it at all. He calls her "Samantha" once, in Secrets; he calls her "kid" on several occasions. But the only one who ever calls her "Sammie" is actually Urgo. Another case of fanon run rampant!

Threads. Jim/Anubis calls him "Dannyboy" in the Waffle House at the End of the Universe. I challenge anyone to suggest that this is something Daniel likes, especially under the circumstances.

Conclusion: The usage of "Danny" as a regular nickname for Daniel is not canon. 

My personal fanon opinion? My own reason for disliking "Danny" is my regular problem with overemphasized fanon in the first place: fanon, with its tendency to exaggerate aspects of the characters that are either marginalized or nonexistent on the show, results in writing characters that often have little to do with the actual characters I recognize from SG-1. So when I read about Jack and "Danny," I often feel like I'm reading about two characters that have nothing to do with Jack O'Neill and Daniel Jackson at all. And I think, in the final analysis, that the condescension in the name "Danny" is the aspect that annoys readers the most. Too many writers emphasize Daniel's "innocence," his civilian status, his comparatively poorer weapons training, and his greater need to be defended against enemies; add the younger-sounding "Danny" to this mix, and the implication is made – even if it isn't intended – that Daniel is of lesser status than the rest of SG-1, or at the very least has an uneven father/son relationship with Jack.

I have much less of a problem with Jack thinking of Daniel as "Danny" or "Danny-boy." I've read superb fics written in Jack's POV where this is often the case. But in actual dialogue? I'll let one "Danny" slip past, possibly even two in really dire circumstances (he's partly or mostly dead, for example). After that – well, I'm sure there are plenty of writers who won't consider it a great loss if I don't read their story. And I wish them well, and I'll go read fics about Dr. Daniel Jackson instead.

I know it can be tempting. I have a crossover fic that almost demands the use of "Spacemonkey" as an actual plot point. But I can't bring myself to use it, because it would be wrong. 

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

Comments

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think you have it covered.

The only thing that could be added here is that Jack does once or twice call Daniel 'Dr. Jackson'- at the end of the movie most notably(clearly respectfully). Were there any occasions in the TV series? (I think he starts out calling him 'Jackson' in the movie, which would appropriate in a military environment.)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Daniel dreamed Jack called him Dr. Jackson when he left in "Forever in a Day". I thought it was a nice callback to the movie.

As for being called "Jackson", by Jack? I can't think of any offhand.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yeah, he was mostly "Jackson" during the movie, then "Daniel" after they escaped the execution. And one "Doctor Jackson."

I didn't include it because calling someone by their last name isn't exactly a nickname. :)

And yes, it's appropriate for a military enviornment. And yes, it drives me insane that Mitchell calls him "Jackson." Ugh.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

You forgot one other "Danny" time. The best in canon. When Daniel refers to himself as Danny. "Reckoning Part 2"

"Trying to leave? Sorry. A little more time in Danny's world."

Of course that was being sarcastic in a warped mind game within his own subconscious, so reality is a bit hard to judge there. And in that instance, my world, or Daniel's world doesn't have the same ring to it. Plus it's ironic. Daniel has been essentially mind-raped by Replicarter (and I never thought to call it that before, so...ew), so it turned the victim "helpless as a child" connotation on its head.

I don't have a problem with Jacob Carter calling Daniel "Danny", because even before he had Selmak, he was old enough to be Daniel's father. Is it unprofessional? Yes. But I think in Jacob's case, it is affectionate and not disrespectful. I liken it more to feeling close enough to Sam's SG-1 colleagues to consider them family, and parents/older generations can come up with some funky nicknames for the youngsters. He calls him that, Daniel doesn't object... Okay, I'm totally subjective on it. It doesn't bug me, and as far as canon goes, I accept it there (I confess, I used it there). Heh.

Apparently (and I wish I remember where I read this now...a CA con report?), it was something Carmen started doing on set, and CA was then teased mercilessly about it by RDA.

I too am among those who finds Jack calling Daniel "Danny" a lot in a fic the equivalent of nails on chalkboard. Even if Jack DOES call Daniel "Danny" in canon, it happens very rarely, so its overemphasis in a fic pulls me out of the story.

However, someone pointed out early tales in fandom that saw these few instances of "Danny" may have extrapolated it for their tales. That's what fanfic often does. If it's an older story, I try and give it a bit of slack, but it's hard (see "nails on chalkboard" above).

Strangely though, on the occasion I read slash fic, "Danny" doesn't bother me *as* much, because to my "gen they're all just friends" mind, Jack and Daniel "that way" are already AU, so this is just more evidence of that different reality to me.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

"Trying to leave? Sorry. A little more time in Danny's world."

Oh dear me yes. But of course, no one called Daniel that; he called himself that. Which is why I didn't include it.

Plus it's ironic. Daniel has been essentially mind-raped by Replicarter (and I never thought to call it that before, so...ew), so it turned the victim "helpless as a child" connotation on its head.

Creepy! And intriguing. Ergh. But I loved, loved, loved Daniel in those scenes. Talk about intense!

I didn't mean to suggest that I have a problem with Jacob calling Daniel "Danny." Like you, I think it has a certain charm to it. And my personal thought is that he started thinking of him as "Danny" after he pulled "The Great and Powerful Oz" shtick. :) I would have no trouble with any author having Jacob refer to Daniel as "Danny" on occasion. Its inclusion in the post was to suggest that Jacob's usage of the nickname didn't necessarily mean that Daniel prefers "Danny" to his regular name, and shouldn't be used as an excuse for excessive Danny usage.

Good point that earlier fics are more likely to use Danny and consider it fitting nicely with canon - after all, he was called that on those six occasions, all in the earlier seasons. Something to consider, I suppose.

But... fingernails on chalkboard. Yep, that about sums up my reaction.

[mr-supermoose.livejournal.com]

I've got another "Danny" from Hathor:

JACKSON: General, I like permission to have Hathor come down here and debrief us.

O'NEILL: Whoa, Danny! I don't think so.

JACKSON: General. I think you sense what I do. Hathor is a friend.


The only reason that popped into my head when I saw this post is because I was just rewatching season 1 the other day and my wife commented on it. She made me play it back even.

We had this discussion once before because we come at this show from different perspectives. We both watched a whole bunch of episodes in a row thanks to netflix. She went online right away in search of fanfic and i waited for a while until she dragged me in. She started slashing Jack/Daniel right away. She mentioned that a lot of fic had Jack calling Daniel "Danny", which doesn't seem to bother her unless it's too much.

I see the Jack-Daniel interaction as something that went from more fatherly to brotherly. I think when Daniel first comes back to Earth in the first season, Jack has sort of taken him under his wing and the "Danny" use reflects it. It's around more. After a few years, Jack is treating more like a brother. They snap at each other more, definitely, starting in season 4, but they're still tight. I read tons of fic that makes it sound like they're at each other's throats until Daniel ascends, but I don't see it like that. I see two men, close as brothers, getting into spats and getting over it. 'Course, there's too much 'poor widdle Danny' in fic as it is.

The fact that Jacob calls Daniel "Danny" doesn't seem to phase him could come from that too. Jacob is sort of a father figure- he'd fit in that slot for Daniel, I think. The "Danny" doesn't bug him. I could swear I read an interview of Carmen Whateverhislast name is who plays Jacob, and they discussed that. I'll ask mrs. moose since she hangs out at a bunch more Stargate places than I do online. We have like 50 sites on our bookmark folder for Stargate and I only know about a third of them.

Mr_supermoose

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Thanks for adding that one! Totally slipped my mind. I'll edit the post to include it, crediting you, of course. :)

I understand where you're coming from, with the father/son and brothers relationships. And there certainly was the "taking him under his wing" angle, especially in the very first show, when "they don't know what to do with me, and I don't what to do myself." But simply classifying them as father/son does them both a great disservice, I think.

It's the fanon vs. canon question all over again. By emphasizing the father/son thing as much as so many fics do, it takes away from their friendship and makes them less than equals. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and they complement each other so wonderfully. It's unfortunate that too many writers focus on a single point and lost the whole, delightful picture. And yes, it's the "poor widdle Danny" thing that gets on my nerves, too. :)

Like you, I wouldn't say they were at each others' throats in late S5. But I would strongly suggest that Daniel was extremely unhappy - not necessarily with Jack, but with what he and the SGC had become.

I like your suggestion that Daniel could take "Danny" from Jacob in stride because he was a father figure, of sorts. Although I'd still assert that Daniel would prefer respect from Jacob more than fatherly affection. Fortunately, it looks like he got both. :)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

They snap at each other more, definitely, starting in season 4, but they're still tight. I read tons of fic that makes it sound like they're at each other's throats until Daniel ascends, but I don't see it like that. I see two men, close as brothers, getting into spats and getting over it.

That's how I see it too. I've never seen this rift between Jack and Daniel in S4 & S5. Just a give and take with two men who respect and care for each other (mileage varies on how to intrepret the "caring" nature, naturally, heh.)

[janedavitt.livejournal.com]

Oh, word on all of this. If it's over-used in a fic I start getting picky as hell and positively bitchy about anything else that crops up, including minor typos.

Too damn cutesy.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Would you suggest the reverse is true? That if a story is really well-written, you'd let an extra Danny or two slide?

I do agree with Aurora above, who pointed out that if a story was first written within the first three seasons, it's only fair to give the writer a little slack; after all, Jack was occasionally calling him Danny, back then. But any fic written from, say 2002 or later? No excuses. Definitely.

[shutthef-up.livejournal.com]

I've friended you because I'm really loving this kind of meta! Yay!

I don't have a lot to add here, other than I really dislike reading Jack calling Daniel, 'Danny' in fanfic. Yes, he's done it a few times, but not regularly. I agree, Daniel feels it's condescending and patronizing. Don't even get me started on 'Spacemonkey'. It made me cringe when it was used originally and I've grown no fonder of it as time's gone on.

I didn't mind it when Jacob used 'Danny' in Summit/Last Stand, because yes, he calls Sam, 'Sammie' and I saw it as an affectionate term from a father-figure type man, rather than condescendingly.

From what I've read, I guess I'm in the minority. I like that Mitchell calls Daniel, 'Jackson' and uses 'Sam' instead of Carter. To me, it sets him apart from Jack. He's a totally different dynamic, so the changes in familiar names makes sense. I think it would have bothered me if Mitchell had referred to them in exactly the same way Jack did. From a creative standpoint, it makes sense for Mitchell to distinguish himself from Jack early on. From a character standpoint, I think Mitchell would feel it's arrogant to assume he's welcome to use the same familiarity that Jack did.

I've always felt it's implied that Sam and Cam were acquainted before he came to the SGC. And they're the same rank, so there's no reason whatsoever that he wouldn't call her 'Sam'.

As far as Daniel goes, yes, Mitchell's been invited to use Daniel's first name, but Cam is a bit of a Southern Gentleman and I don't think he feels he's earned that right, yet. And I don't think Daniel minds being called 'Jackson'.

So... that's what I think!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

::blushes:: Thanks for the lovely compliment! :)

Yep, I agree with you re Jacob. It didn't bother me, it likely didn't bother Daniel, and it probably made him feel like part of the family, which was mostly likely a plus for our Daniel.

You like the "Jackson" thing? Glad someone does. :) It irritates me because it goes against the grain. The only person we ever heard call Daniel simply "Jackson" was Makepeace. Now, I don't see Makepeace as a villain; I save that for Maybourne. The "Jackson" thing was a Marine, with the distance of being on another team. But his own teammate calling him "Jackson"? It wasn't only Jack who called him "Daniel"; it was Sam, and it was Teal'c, and it was everyone in the SGC except for Hammond. I'll actually touch on that in a future post, because I was seriously bugged when Landry called him "Daniel" over the intercom at the end of Origin...

I don't mind Mitchell calling Sam, "Sam." Except that it takes away, just a bit, from the respect I think she deserves. All the military officers call her Sam. That annoys me.

Your last para confuses me, though. It's ungentlemanly to call him by his first name, so Mitchell calls him by his last name without the courtesy of an honorific? You lost me, there. Except that I agree that Daniel doesn't much care. I care because it feels off - but clearly your mileage varies. :)

Glad you're joining in the fun, here!

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

I so love this. Thank you so much. Some of what I say is based on my perspective as a J/D slash writer, so factor that in...

My opinion: I like it when in fanfic Jack uses "Danny" as a term of endearment, based on the few times that he uses it that way in canon, chiefly Hathor, which you have so nicely pointed out. My favorite meta on Jack calling Daniel "Danny" happens in the course of the narrative of the romantic and smutty fic "Slipping" by paian.

I don't think Jack routinely calls him Danny, and I agree that Danny can have connotations of patronizing, Daniel-is-a-kid-in-my-eyes overtones, but I think we can avoid that. People often create private or personal nicknames for their friends and/or lovers, and this works for me. But I agree that it can be overused, and I agree that in general in canon Jack seems to think of him as "Daniel," which is best.

I don't mind Jacob calling him Danny for the father-figure reason, and I don't think Daniel seems to mind it.

I don't think "Spacemonkey" is any kind of a routine nickname. Writers have to make my buy that. I can be sold on that, but it's not a given for me.

I like it that Cameron calls him Jackson. I think it goes along with the military thing. It also makes a nice change from Jack calling him Daniel.

I had not noticed that everyone calls Carter SAM. I have to look into that. I don't mind of Cameron does, because I agree that IMHO they were friends before he joined the program. I think they clearly have some history; exactly what it is is up to the fanwriters!

Those are my preferences, and if, as a slash writer, I'm looking for a term of endearment for Jack to call Daniel, I've been known to use "Danny," and that works for me. But I do know it's a sore point for many.

I, as other comments have said, tend to write both Jack and Daniel as alpha's, which might make a difference in how I see this point. Other characterizations, are, of course, possible and even prevalent.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

If you genuinely care about someone, and you know a nickname irritates that person, would you use it, even if your intentions are affectionate? Surely you'd pick another name, something that's uniquely yours without any uncomfortable connotations?

To be fair, most of the people calling Sam by her first name seem to know her somehow from outside the program. Which is irritating by itself. Sam has been shown to have as little social life as anyone else in the program ("Carter, do you have a DATE?!"), so how come she knows everybody well enough to be on first-name terms with them?

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

Forgot to say that Danny Boy seems to go along with the lame Irish shtick that Jack sometimes pulls. I have never used that in a fic, actually, except as a joke, which I think goes along with canon. You all know the haunting old song, which I think is eerily perfect for the slash versions of Jack and Daniel. *shivers*

(I want more fanfic that delves into JACK AS IRISH, as moody Celt! Yes! I do. Hee hee.)

[theemdash]

I am so glad that sg1_debrief linked to these. These are excellant discussions.

Summit/Last Stand. For some odd reason, Jacob Carter calls him "Danny" several times during this two-parter

I was at a convention with Carmen Argenziano in March, 2005 and he actually commented on the "Dannys" in those episodes. He thought it was weird and out of character. (And said something about RDA making fun of him for the "Dannys".)

Also I want to offer my two cents: Because there is evidence of Jack calling him "Danny" in the first 2 seasons, I'm more inclined to let those references go by for those early-season fics. Also, based on when they're used, I'm willing to let an occasional "Danny" slip by in later-season fic if one of them is dying, or Jack says it in a purely joking fashion. But it should be used very sparingly; multiple usage drives me mad, too.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Interesting re CA feeling weird about the "Dannys" - so it wasn't his slurring of the nickname, it was actually scripted? Huh.

Like you, I'm inclined to be more tolerant of "Danny" when it's an older fic - not necessarily long-haired Daniel, but a fic that was written before the turn of the century. And, also like you, a once-in-a-while in-crisis "Danny" is bearable. "Sparingly" is a good word, though, and the key!

And isn't sg1_debrief wonderful? Such an excellent resource!

Sammie

[jenniferjf.livejournal.com]

As a Sam and Jacob fan, I couldn't let this stand. Jacob never calls an adult Sam "Sammie". Ever. I checked with many friends of mine to confirm this fact. It is, ironically, yet another example of 'fanon' being confused with 'canon'. Just thought it was interesting that this confusion proves your point about the difference between the two and how easy it is to get them confused.

Excellent points overall, BTW!

Re: Sammie

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Thanks for chiming in with your expert knowledge, here. :)

Jacob never calls an adult Sam "Sammie". Ever.

Okay, this truly astonished me. So I went back to check. And I salute you! :) The only time Sam ever gets called "Sammie" is by... Urgo. Heh. Your reference to "adult Sam" had me checking her flashback in The Devil You Know, but Jacob calls her "Sam" there, too. He calls her "Samantha" in Secrets at one point, and he calls her "kid" all the time, but no "Sammie." So, thank you! And I'll edit the post to reflect that.

Fanon can be a little scary sometimes, don't you think? It's got a life of its own. :)

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

Since you're all doing the nicknames things, what do you think of Mitchell calling Daniel 'Sunshine'? He has, so far, done so twice that I can find, once in 'Pegasus Project' when he's waking Daniel up in the mess and 'The Shroud', in the infirmary scene.
I personally don't mind the Jackson thing with Mitchell, even though Daniel has told him to call him Daniel. I almost see it as Mitchell trying to infuse a little distance between him and his team members, which of course, doesn't really work because he calls Sam, Sam. And I'm with you on the military folks calling her Sam, so doesn't work for me and smacks of disrespect.

Anyway, I did a short fic about how Daniel doesn't like nicknames and gets back at Mitchell in his own Daniel-bitchy way.
http://www.freewebs.com/gemgate2/sunshinestrikesback.htm

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Glad you found your way here! :)

In regards to your question re Mitchell's nickname, I don't think my feelings are particularly strong either way. I have S9-10 as fair a shot as I could, I think; but the Ori era leaves me very cold. I feel like I'm chasing after fleeting glimpses of the Daniel I love, rather than actually seeing him onscreen. Sam, at least, is marvelously herself, as is Teal'c. But I have almost no interest in the canon, although Mitchell, Vala et al have had some excellent fanfic written about them that I have enjoyed.

So, "Sunshine." It amused me, I suppose - partially because Daniel took it so calmly. Mitchell getting Daniel's attention in The Quest part 2 by calling him by his first name utterly charmed me. The Jackson thing, however, just gets on my nerves. Either be military all the way - which would include "Carter" - or call him Daniel.

But your fic (thanks for the link!) made me laugh - because I've used that particularly nickname on some of my, hm, chubbier nieces and nephews, and because of the casual reference to Sam's remembering "the shouting in the zoo." So yes, I can so see Daniel doing that!

[tejas.livejournal.com]

LOL!!!!!!!!!! *Great* story!

[tejas.livejournal.com]

One more possible "Danny", though it doesn't greatly affect the support for your conclusions. Check when Jack hauls Daniel back through the gate in The Light. I *think* he calls him both Daniel and Danny when he's Not!Giving CPR. ;-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Heh. Having fun, are you? :)

I went and pulled up that scene (oh, the agony, I tell you!) and listened with closed eyes. He calls him "Daniel" three times when he's Not!Giving CPR (oh do I love that!), but no Danny, nope. :)

And I am utterly charmed by Daniel's unfastened boots, a detail I hadn't noticed before. They dressed him in a real hurry for his trip through the Gate.

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

Daniel repeats, "Danny?" in a tone of incredulity. Later, after the coverstone has fallen and Sam is trying to help him deal with the aftermath, he tells her, "He called me Danny, like I'm still… like I'm still a little kid."


So here, we clearly see that Daniel equates the nickname "Danny" with his childhood: with being dismissed as too young, as inconsequential, "a little kid."

Just revisitng Gamekeeper for a fic and had a thought. When Mel chastised Daniel for attempting to divert their attention, his father snaps 'Danny Jackson!'. When I was young and in trouble, my parents would whip out the entire name, first, middle and last name, not the shortened version and certainly not the nickname.
The fact that his father doesn't do that suggests to me that he is always referred to as Danny. Even by his parents trying to get his attention, he is 'Danny'. I think this goes a long way to explain why he insists on the more formal, and standoffish, Daniel. Yes, he lets the very formal Dr. Jackson stand for some folks, but that is almost always on a professional basis.
I can picture a very determined eight-year-old erecting and rigidly maintaining an emotional wall by repeatedly telling people that he is 'Daniel', not 'Danny'.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's a good point - any time someone uses a full name, they tend to drop any nicknames. I know I do it to my kids... :)

However, despite fanon's insistence to the contrary, Daniel is on a first-name basis with very few people, whether it's Daniel or Danny that he uses as a handle (and it's Daniel. DANIEL!). Outside SG-1 and Janet and Cassie...? Nope, not really. There's more detail on this in the Fanonization of Saint Daniel. Here's the closest link to the pertinent section.

But yes on this: I can picture a very determined eight-year-old erecting and rigidly maintaining an emotional wall by repeatedly telling people that he is 'Daniel', not 'Danny'.

"Danny" was his parents' name for him. No one else would the right.

our own interpretation, naturally... :)

POSSIBLE ATLANTIS SPOILERS (5x10)

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

_ (delete comment if necessary)





Not sure how many people on your list watch Atlantis, but in "First Contact" after Daniel tries to talk them out of a situation and ends up with one hour to live, Rodney says "Great plan, Danny!" and the only reason I noticed it was because I had just read this.

(Daniel doesn't really react to the name at all)

Re: POSSIBLE ATLANTIS SPOILERS (5x10)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Heh, yes. Mind you, McKay hasn't called Daniel by name at all the entire episode. Daniel's called him "Rodney" a few times, but McKay doesn't call him Daniel. So this "Danny" definitely falls into the category of unbridled sarcasm, don't you think? :)

True, Daniel didn't react. I don't think he even heard, to be frank. He's got hands jammed in his pockets, he's staring at the door, and his response is, "Why the suits?" He's thinking about the aliens, not about McKay or even the death threat.

In fact, the only time in both eps that McKay calls him "Daniel" is when he's badly zapped/electrocuted. Too much inner competition going on, perhaps?

[Why yes, I did watch these episodes once or thrice or more, despite never having watched another ep of SGA. Why do you ask? ;) ]

ETA: and thanks for your courtesy in labeling the potential spoiler for those who haven't seen the eps yet!