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My love for this episode is largely incoherent, but can probably be summed up as follows:
Oh, Daniel.
I came across a discussion in another LJ not too long ago - it might have been![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
merryish - in which she marveled at how panicky and disbelieving and incredulous Daniel et al were about the idea of alternate dimensions. By the time we hit S3, it's par for the course; by S9, alternate realties are met with a shrug and a yawn.
But Daniel in this episode doesn't stop flailing, and it's so much fun to watch. I think he used more gestures in this one episode than he did in the rest of S1 together, particularly in that first scene with Catherine, which is one of my favorite bits. My absolute favorite scene, of course, is when Daniel talks General!Jack into going to Teal'c, appealing through that connection that apparently is cross-dimensional. The friendship between Jack and Daniel was one of the first real draws to SG-1 for me, and I doubt that will ever change.
This episode leads into the four-part arc that takes us into S2, and it's all so good. I really love this ep to pieces.
I adore the way I can watch for the umpteenth time and discover new little bits and pieces. In this case, I noticed two things:
When Catherine and Daniel are first discussing the idea that the odd device he picked up might control the mirror, she asks him, "You got everything from the lab on P3R-233?" Daniel answers, "Yes - well, except the gun and the grenade." And later, when Sam goes to pick up the controller and gets ambushed by the Jaffa - there she is, with a grenade. Heh. That's where she got it from.
When they try to dial the first time, before Sam sets up the accelerated dialling program, "Chevron Two, encoded" is actually the point of origin. Oops.
And a few things I've always wondered:
"Oh, I really hate it when this happens." Huh? What? Are we supposed to believe that SG-1 makes a habit of walking through the Stargate without Daniel? Or is Daniel actually saying, "Oh, I really hate it when something screwy happens"?
How in the world are we supposed to explain the reversal between Jack's rank and Hammond's?
Why couldn't Daniel flee to the Beta Site with the other refugees and make his way to P3R-233 from there? In the end, it was a moot point, but why was it necessary to ask the SGA to make the sacrifice?
My default icon is from this ep. Oh, Daniel, we really do love you. :)
Oh, Daniel.
I came across a discussion in another LJ not too long ago - it might have been
merryish - in which she marveled at how panicky and disbelieving and incredulous Daniel et al were about the idea of alternate dimensions. By the time we hit S3, it's par for the course; by S9, alternate realties are met with a shrug and a yawn.But Daniel in this episode doesn't stop flailing, and it's so much fun to watch. I think he used more gestures in this one episode than he did in the rest of S1 together, particularly in that first scene with Catherine, which is one of my favorite bits. My absolute favorite scene, of course, is when Daniel talks General!Jack into going to Teal'c, appealing through that connection that apparently is cross-dimensional. The friendship between Jack and Daniel was one of the first real draws to SG-1 for me, and I doubt that will ever change.
This episode leads into the four-part arc that takes us into S2, and it's all so good. I really love this ep to pieces.
I adore the way I can watch for the umpteenth time and discover new little bits and pieces. In this case, I noticed two things:
When Catherine and Daniel are first discussing the idea that the odd device he picked up might control the mirror, she asks him, "You got everything from the lab on P3R-233?" Daniel answers, "Yes - well, except the gun and the grenade." And later, when Sam goes to pick up the controller and gets ambushed by the Jaffa - there she is, with a grenade. Heh. That's where she got it from.
When they try to dial the first time, before Sam sets up the accelerated dialling program, "Chevron Two, encoded" is actually the point of origin. Oops.
And a few things I've always wondered:
"Oh, I really hate it when this happens." Huh? What? Are we supposed to believe that SG-1 makes a habit of walking through the Stargate without Daniel? Or is Daniel actually saying, "Oh, I really hate it when something screwy happens"?
How in the world are we supposed to explain the reversal between Jack's rank and Hammond's?
Why couldn't Daniel flee to the Beta Site with the other refugees and make his way to P3R-233 from there? In the end, it was a moot point, but why was it necessary to ask the SGA to make the sacrifice?
My default icon is from this ep. Oh, Daniel, we really do love you. :)
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I've wondered about that myself. Maybe it's more of a "I hate it when I get separated from my team"?
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I'm trying to think - other than F&W, has Daniel ever been separated from the others?
I love the segue from the close-up of the DHD to the wormhole effect to poor Daniel getting all those rifles right in his face. :)
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Yeah, it is. Maybe it was a callback to F&W, though. That's another one where Daniel was left behind on a planet. (Not that Daniel was left behind in TBFTGOG exactly, but from his point of view at that point, he was.)
I love the segue from the close-up of the DHD to the wormhole effect to poor Daniel getting all those rifles right in his face. :)
Yeah, that's great. It's a really well done episode all around. I think the arc from TBFTGOG to Serpent's Lair is some of the best in terms of quality that SG1 ever did. They aren't my favorite from a strictly fannish standpoint (I do love them, but overall I'm partial to the later seasons), but they're some of the most well done episodes that they ever made.
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And yes, my only real gripe is why he didn't just go with the refugees and gate back to the planet from there.
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::hugs early SG-1::
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Maybe he was afraid they wouldn't let him leave and risk the secret of the base's location, I don't know. And in the end, of course, it was moot, since no one else made it to the Gate. But the sheer amazing drama of the appeal was kinda unnecessary, wasn't it?
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Incredibly happy sigh.
And while we're at it? Even AU Teal'c and General Jack had a strong connection. Sadly, it wasn't enough to overcome the deaths of Ry'ac and Drey'auc, but gaaah - it was like SG-1 was there, but wasn't.
Love this ep, I really do. :)
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happy place
For the "Oh, I really hate it when this happens." To me that read a lot of old history of Daniel's getting left behind--not just on Nem's planet, but just in general not able to catch up with the cool guys.
As to the reversal between ranks--I always figured in this reality, they had the same 1969 connundrum, but here it cost Hammond his rank, set him back. He did something, said something, that tweaked this timeline (make it the point of departure). And that tweak led to Sam not joining the Air Force, and Daniel not joining the SGA (and I've always wonder just how rude he was about that), and so on. But Jack gets the promotion for surviving Abydos...
And that brings up the question of how the hell did they get home from Abydos without Daniel? Or did they not even go--did they nuke the places from this side of the gate, and Jack just inherited the program from West?
Re: happy place
Oh, I like that interpretation for Daniel's statement.
Wait, wait. How can 1969 happen if the SGC doesn't survive long enough for an SG-1 to go back in time?
I think they never actually went through to Abydos - that they nuked it, as you say, from this side, and they were lucky enough to catch Ra's mothership on the ground, so that they managed to kill him, too.
Or maybe not so lucky, since that probably triggered the attack on Earth. And no Abydos cartouche, so how would they have any planets to go to...?
Sometimes it's best not to question too closely. :) Although Redbyrd had them studying the Abydon Gate for six months via MALP before they figured out a safe way to get back home, and only then went through the Gate themselves.
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Well, Jack seems a little more serious in this AU (although that could be be because the apocalypse is occurring). Perhaps he stuck with his career, and worked a little harder to make General a little earlier. They also don't explain what happened after Charlie died, and how he got through it. As for Hammond... it's not unknown for Colonels to be his age, right? I'm more than a little hazy on things military, but prior to watching Stargate, the title 'Colonel' for me conjured up someone older than Jack. In real life, they're only 8 years apart in age, and on the show, when they're not in military mode, they seem fairly contemporary. See for instance Chain Reaction, when they're talking at Hammond's house. Okay, the show seems to imply that Hammond is older (what with the grandkids and all) - but the rank reversal felt okay to me.
Ah, love this ep. That reminds me, I must post the transcript from the rewatch.
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I think the rank thing can be fairly easily explained. Obviously General!Jack was much more focused on his career. We definitely got the impression that he had much less of a sense of humor than our Jack, so if he never left the military during his family crisis and instead he focused on the Air Force (Plus all the deployment points he likely racked up) he could have made General faster. And if George has been languishing in more of a bureaucratic job over the years, he might be behind. Although, I would have almost liked to see George as the top enlisted man under Jack rather than as an officer. He could have been the gruff, loyal 'Chief'!
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General!Jack is harder than our Jack, probably because he never had a Daniel to slap him upside the head.
I don't have a problem with Jack making general, and I guess I don't have a problem with Hammond as a colonel. It's just... both at once. I need some kind of cause and effect, that's all.
And, yes! Do post the transcript! They're always fun to read. :)
Re: happy place
As for Jack's rank, I don't think there can have been a Charlie (and possibly never a Sara, either) in this universe, because there's no way he'd have got engaged to AU-Carter so quickly after losing his family. So he'd have had no reason to retire as he did in our universe, and also may have been more career-focused all along.
Re: happy place
Oh, I love that. Excellent!
And your icon - is it new? Love it. :)
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Now that I think of it, though - all it would take was for Mrs. George to come down with cancer a little earlier. A long leave of absence from duty, maybe? And George never gets the chance to make general.
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Good point! Maybe George took the leave instead of Jack, and I'm not sure we ever learned what George's specialty was. We knew Jack was a pilot, but what was George's AFSC? Hmm. As a general rule, I think infantry and battle-oriented specialties promote faster.
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Plus, they don't kiss! It always has me growling things at the TV. He's going off to probably die, dammit! And you're engaged! It's not against regulations! What better excuse?!
(I must post the chat transcript. The Jack/Daniel shipper POV is So Totally Different to mine. We had a little we-know-not-to-take-this-stuff-seriously ship war over that scene. *g*)
Re: happy place
Re: happy place
I've also assumed there was no Sara and no Charlie; we still have a Black Ops-hardened Jack O'Neill, but one who never retired, never got quite so bitter and despairing, and was still rising in rank.
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Oh, yes, post it! It always amazes me how we can all see things so differently, but when people can remain in good humor about it and everyone can let everyone else have their own glee, it's excellent. That's when fandom really works, you know? If we can just ignore the bad apples on all sides, this would be a very different space. :)
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I love Katherine and Sam in this episode, too. And as a confirmed gen'er, I say this is where the whole Sam and Jack thing starts: once they hear that they're engaged in another reality, they can never get it out of their heads. It never really fits them, but they keep remembering it (especially after "Point of View," with a second Sam engaged to another Jack!).
Of course, shippers have their own spin on this one, I know.
Re: happy place
Except that when Jack ordered the SF to take Daniel away, Daniel managed to finally get his real attention by talking about
the moviethe plans to blow up Abydos, and that Jack was ready to take a suicidal mission because of Charlie's death.no subject
LOL! And I can only accept Sam/Jack when the forbidden aspect is taken away - my one and only rec that includes Sam/Jack is Kellifer's, and it's our Sam and Jack when they're stuck in Ancient Egypt.