fignewton | Redial the Gate: Need

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Redial the Gate: Need

Later today,

redial_the_gate goes live with the recap for Need. I watched the whole thing today for the first time in a long time, and it reminded me that no, I don't like this episode very much. What follows is rather meandering, just thinking out loud, rather than a coherent review of the ep.

Don't get me wrong: this episode is an important one, if for nothing else than dumping the get-out-of-dead-free sarcophagus card. If our heroes can come back to life so easily, where's the tension and drama? Mind you, they've come up with enough alternate ways to revive them... ;) But the sarcophagus did make it a little too easy. I'm glad that it's taken out of the picture this way, albeit not quite as completely as Jack might have liked, come Season Six.

We first learned that the sarcophagi do something to human beings in The Serpent's Lair, when Klorel tells Apophis that his host is strong, and he asks for more sarcophagus time to keep Skaara under wraps, so to speak. Now we find out that the Tok'ra don't use it, because it strips something from the soul. (And I am the only one to be surprised that the Goa'uld even have a word for "soul," when they're so convinced in their own immortality and divinity? If it was a Jaffa word, then yes. But why would the Goa'uld use the word in the first place?)

So what does this mean for Daniel's previous two sarcophagus hot washes - or three, since the first one here doesn't seem to affect him? Is it specifically sarcophagus usage when the body is healthy that damages the soul, or using it at all? Abyss suggests that repeated use has a bad effect no matter what the circumstances. Yet Daniel seems more or less his regular self until he goes in a second time, fully healthy. Not sure how to resolve that contradiction.

So, more of Sam's memories of the Tok'ra - and concrete this time. The introduction of naquadah as something Earth could use. One assumes that the raw ore is a lot lighter than the refined weapon's grade naquadah that weighed so much in Upgrades. And, wow - incredible team support in the aftermath. It was amazingly moving to watch Sam and Jack (and Teal'c, wordlessly) back up Daniel before General Hammond, giving them their faith and trust.

...Especially when Daniel betrayed it so badly. Which brings us to why the ep makes me uncomfortable.

I love to see Daniel. I don't much like to see MS playing a character who isn't Daniel, which is what we saw onscreen throughout more than half this episode. It makes me cringe to see Daniel spouting about his sudden improved eyesight, dozing on the throne, giggling and preening and everything else. With his brain chemistry so out of whack, that wasn't Daniel any more, and I hated having to watch him.

This was the first time I watched this episode with my Sam and Daniel friendship goggles in place, instead of watching it wholly from the Jack and Daniel POV, and wow. So much there that I missed - Sam trying to convince Jack (and herself) that they did the right thing by trying to escape and then by allowing the "Jaffa" to take Daniel away. Sam with him in the infirmary, and (ow) the confrontation in her lab. Rushing to catch him when he collapses. Don't get me wrong, the Jack and Daniel stuff is still heavy duty and amazing, but Sam and Daniel are superb here, too.

So, Daniel wakes up from his first time in the sarcophagus. Question one: "What's going on?" Question two: "My friends?" And again and again: "But my friends?" "Talk to your father now!" Daniel really was trying, and Shyla manipulated him like a master.

Shyla, now. Was she using the sarcophagus herself? She told Daniel it would make him feel better than he ever had - was that experience talking? And at the end, Daniel tells her, "You can't use this anymore." Did he mean that literally, that Shyla shouldn't continue to use it? Or that the ruler of the people couldn't use it, as Pyrus had done until then? If Shyla was using it, it explains a lot of her mannerisms... but it doesn't explain a suicide attempt, when she should have wanted her regular fix. And it doesn't explain her willingness to fire on the sarcophagus, at a time she was still addicted to it.
And yet, the way she manipulated Daniel... the little sigh of anticipation when Daniel lay down in the sarcophagus that second time, the way she deflected every question Daniel asked about the others and kept twisting things, even the way it's clear that Pyrus would accept anything she told him - he agreed to keep the others alive when she told him he'd said so, and she talked him into trusting Daniel to come back when she'd extracted a promise of marriage from him.

The episode saddens me because of what Daniel lost. I don't mean innocence; anyone who comes to this LJ frequently enough knows how I feel about Saint Daniel. But Daniel did lose a lot of his belief in the goodness of others, and a lot of belief in himself. Random's "Five and Five" touches on this and puts it better than I can, because when Jack says at the very beginning, "He has got to stop doing this" - well, Jack, he did. Never again do we see Daniel rushing off to save someone, even if the driving, desperate desire to save somebody, when he couldn't save Sha're, is still very much a part of him.

So how much is Daniel to blame for the situation? It's interesting that, despite the sarcophagus messing with his brain chemistry, he still - eventually - came through for his team, and even willingly went back to Earth. And it's the stark realization that he nearly killed Jack that finally snapped him out of it, even when he was still so messed up. So something of Daniel was still there, just as I think it was Daniel that furiously accused Jack of never showing him any respect - Daniel might think that sometimes, but it took the sarcophagus to make him feel it strongly enough and angrily enough to actually say it.

But no, I don't really blame Daniel for what he did under the sarcophagus' influence (I'm sure he blames himself plenty, and he clearly shows a strong need to atone by freeing the slaves and seeing the destruction of the sarcophagus.) What I do blame Daniel for is the appalling way he acted in that first feast with Pyrus. He was still himself then. Yet he allowed that "fascinated by science and discovery" aspect to overcome all common sense. Instead of flattering Pyrus, he blurted out that hey, Pyrus, you're using the sarcophagus to stay alive, you're running a scam, and you must be scared stiff of being found out! Way to be diplomatic, Daniel. No wonder Pyrus stomped out. Perhaps Daniel's later diplomatic efforts and talents were inspired by how badly he failed here.

Some questions:

Why didn't they dress Daniel in scrubs, instead of letting him sweat some more into the same uniform? And did anyone else cringe at the thought of a barefoot Daniel and all that broken glass on the floor of the storeroom?

"I'd like Daniel back on the team." Was Daniel officially removed from SG-1, then? Or was Jack speaking of Daniel returning from sick leave, and being back to himself?

Was Jack mistaken to try and make a break for it while Daniel's feet were still chained and without taking into account Daniel's inability to instantly assess a situation and move, unlike his military teammates? I'd say no, he had to take the chance, but how do others see it? Did Daniel actually die in the rockfall? And how cool was that axe-throw of Teal'c's?

Why didn't Pyrus and the false Jaffa kill Teal'c immediately? They must have been terrified at the idea of their ruse being discovered.

Shyla destroys the sarcophagus by blasting it when it's closed, something I didn't really notice until now. I always thought Hathor's was destroyed because it was ribboned on the inside. If sarcophagi are so fragile that a single staff weapon to the exterior fries it, how in the world do the Goa'uld keep them in running condition?

And why did Shyla insist on wearing her crown sideways? :)

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Is it specifically sarcophagus usage when the body is healthy that damages the soul, or using it at all? Abyss suggests that repeated use has a bad effect no matter what the circumstances. Yet Daniel seems more or less his regular self until he goes in a second time, fully healthy. Not sure how to resolve that contradiction.

I resolve it by assuming that the sarcophagus "high" that Daniel suffers here and the long-term "soul damage" are two separate (if possibly related) side effects. I think that the drug type effect is a direct result of using the sarcophagus when you're too healthy to need it - pretty much the equivalent of getting high on painkillers when you're not actually in pain. Maybe it hits Goa'uld faster and harder because they're using the sarcophagus on top of their natural healing powers, and that's why the Tok'ra are wary of it. (Also, they were talking about using the sarcophagus to prolong lifespan, which presumably means popping yourself in on a regular basis to repair the minor effects of aging rather than an actual injury.)

I think the "soul damage" is a slower, more insidious thing, and possibly has more to do with being healed from dying than just using the sarcophagus per se. Presumably there's brain damage each time Baal kills Jack, and the sarcophagus must have to make a 'best guess' how to repair the stuff that's been lost. And maybe it can do that with 99.99% or greater accuracy, so the first few times you wouldn't even notice a difference... but that error is cumulative. Each time he dies and is revived, he's lost a few more braincells, a tiny fraction more of the memories and mental connections that make him who he is. Like the Asgard and their clones, it's a slightly less perfect reproduction each time. Maybe that's what Daniel meant by, "it's destroying who you are".

Such is my fanwanky theory, anyway.

That's an interesting suggestions: two bad side-effects to unnecessary sarcophagus healing, one temporary but intense, one insidious and permanent. And I do like the idea that the "hit" is stronger for the Goa'uld, who have greater healing powers in the first place.

Interesting handwave re Abyss, although it doesn't the answer the Daniel question. By the time he "willingly" (aka "is blackmailed") into returning into the sarc, he's already been healed from death once, and twice from mostly dead. Does it matter how much time passes, for example? How long did Ra wait to dump Daniel in the sarc, and how much did it affect him?

I think

nomadicwriter thinks along much the same lines I do (but more articulately).

Yes, I think time elapsed makes a big difference, and that's why it's bad for Jack even though he needs the healing. One can heal from the effects of the sarcophagus too, but it takes time--and in "Need," Daniel has almost no time between sessions in it for the effects to dissipate.

"Need" makes me sad for the same reasons it makes you sad, but I think it's a really good episode even though (or because?) it's so very painful to watch. Michael Shanks does an amazing job. In a lot of ways, that isn't Daniel, but we see bits of his true self peeking through, and he comes through in the end.

Yes, I'm terribly bothered by his being barefoot in broken glass! From fanfics I've read, I think others are too--but I haven't liked a lot of the fanfic that goes with this episode, and I've pretty much stopped reading it. I've also only watched the episode once; even though I think highly of it, I'm in no hurry to see it again. Is that sort of how you feel, or are you less convinced it's a good episode?

In a lot of ways, that isn't Daniel, but we see bits of his true self peeking through, and he comes through in the end.

I think it speaks a lot to Daniel's strength of character that he did, in fact, get the team out, and came back with them. Of course, he still didn't recognize (admit?) that he was addicted at that point, and that coming down wouldn't be fun.

There are lots and lots and lots and lots of ep tags for this, mostly regarding the team hovering near Daniel round the clock to help him get back to himself, which can get a bit... cloying after a while. (One even tried to resolve Daniel of all blame altogether by asserting that the sarc was broken and always ran a double-cycle, which means that poor Saint Daniel was addicted even after the first time. No comment.) I did rec a Need ep tag today, in honor of the occasion - but it's a Random fic, which means sharp and pointed and real instead of mushy hurt/comfort, heh. But I really remember only one fic that addresses the cuts on Daniel's feet.

I do think the ep is a good one, and I think all the actors, particularly MS and RDA, did a superb job. But when I do rewatch it, I tend to skip straight to the SGC bits, and skip all the (for me) painful stuff on the planet.

Oh, yeah--Random is one of the few for whom I break my self-imposed Need-fic embargo. I read that when she first posted it; it's good.

Random is one of three writers that I fangirl absolutely shamelessly. Thankfully, she puts up with it. :)

And I am the only one to be surprised that the Goa'uld even have a word for "soul," when they're so convinced in their own immortality and divinity?

Well, actually, if you're going to pretend to be a god, you have to come up with the religion and belief to structure around it, and the promise of something better to come-- a reward for dying in the here and now serving your god. So that's a good reason right there to tell humans there's a soul. (Or a Jaffa.) And most beliefs equate 'soul' to some 'devine spark' -- so it could easily be the idea that this is a bit we gave you from us--the thing in you that is eternal, since we are. So it does make sense. And you need something to fit with Egyptian religion, which does hold with the concept of a soul--a spirit self.

But we have very little on original Goa'uld belief--there could be a lot more going on in those snake-brains than anyone knows.

As to the sarcophagus, it seems as if the less physical damage there is to repair, the more mental risk there is (Jack seems resonably Jack in Abyss after a few times through, but he's dead every time he goes in). On the other hand....

Shyla's odd kick could be accounted for, not only by a screwy father, but by her own addiction. She does not say she has NOT used it--she says she has not needed it to extend her life. (The implication is she needs it for other things.) Also, Daniel at the end tells her 'it will be bad' and she has to stop using it (meaning he knows she's been in it, too). This would account for her not being wrapped as tight as her dresses. (Hence the sideways crown--the girl's not straight about anything.)

M's brilliant Have Snake Will Travel (http://www.butcheredart.net/Fiction/HaveSnakeWillTravelDC.html) offers up a brillant thought as to what the sarcophagus does, with Daniel telling Osiris, "If I had said: 'Jack, the sarcophagus is messing with your self on the quantum level, so that nothing of your consciousness will reach its next intended, natural quantum state after the death of your body,' he would have looked at me funny."

I think the idea that it 'messes' with your quantum level physics makes a lot of sense--it's not just brain chemistry being tweaked here, it's a whole lot more. So the magic box that gives life takes something for a price--great metaphore there.

It's also my personal theory that there's only a limited number of sarcophagi around--like maybe 30 tops. They tend to be associated with system lords, and I don't think the Goa'uld built them. I think they're adapted technology, and so they're like having granddad's time machine in the basement--way cool, but god knows how it works or how to keep it going, it just sort of does. (Which makes the Tok'ra smarter than the average Goa'uld to stay away from the things.)

As to the other bits--yeah, I think Daniel was pulled from the team (he's attacked two people, he has become an addict to alien tech, and he's lucky Hammond didn't toss him into a mental institute or jail). And I just love when Daniel makes his appeal to Jack--not to Hammond--to get back. He even cuts Hammond off to do it, and that's where you really know its Daniel. And it's to Hammond's credit that he lets that slide, and lets Jack take Daniel back on again.

For blame on the situation, in my take, it really has to fall on Shyla. I don't think you can blame Daniel for falling for it--his experience have been that when he's shown trust, he's gotten it back. He's realting to her as if she's being straight-up with him when she's not--he never again lets this happen (not willingly). And, no, he's not much of a diplomat, but then he always did have regretable diplomatic drawbacks--like distraction, losing his temper and telling people off. But Jack's worse, so what can you do?

(Does make you wonder why the hell they never put a diplomat on SG-1, but they sort of did once with Joe and that didn't work out well, either.)

this is a bit we gave you from us--the thing in you that is eternal, since we are

Oh, I like that - the suggestion that the Goa'uld might plant the idea that carrying a symbiote brings the Jaffa closer to divinity. Delightfully creepy, and so like their modus operandi. And you're right, of course, that we don't know what the Goa'uld on Chaka's planet think about Life, the Universe, and Everything. :)

Shyla is such a contradiction that I keep changing my mind. She's too manipulative to be innocent - she really played on Daniel's fears, kept dangling SG-1 in front of him and pulled them away. She was so pleased when Daniel became dismissive of his friends. And yes, he did warn her it would be hard without it, and she was in tears about destroying it.

And yet... and yet... She seems to genuinely care about the wellbeing of her people. She fired the staff weapon, almost without hesitation. And there's the suicidal thing, which just seems so wrong for someone with a sarc addiction.

But this made me laugh: Hence the sideways crown--the girl's not straight about anything. Hee!

M's story is a little too adult for my tastes - I had to do a lot of skimming - but hoo boy is it good. And yes, that quote is a great one, and the magic box that gives but takes away something even more precious - yep.

I'll buy the idea that sarcs are limited, and we do know (Evolution in S7) that they're a corrupted version of some Ancient device. For all we know, the ribbon devices were initially intended primarily for telepathic communication and mental transfers, a la Sha're in FIAD - using it to fry someone's brains might have been an equal corruption of Goa'uld technology.

I do blame Shyla for being manipulative, for being cold and calculating and blackmailing, and most of all for having that annoying wistful motif playing every time she's on screen. :) No, I don't blame a Daniel who is isolated and anxious and has never really had to plan to save the team before for falling for it. But some part of me does wonder if Shyla is, just a tiny bit, a victim of circumstance. Daniel would certainly view it that way. In fact, it's clear that he does.

And like I said, I think this disaster shocked Daniel into learning diplomatic skills, fast. He's certainly a master at it come S4.

(Poor Joe!)

I think you're right in that Shyla does seem to at least want to care about her folks. It may be a case of a good person with a terrible upbringing. If dad's about 700, and she hasn't had to extend her life, that means maybe there were other siblings or before her who didn't last. And so maybe mom was in a long live of wives--sort of bringing new levels to the disfunction in a family. Daniel obviously thought well enough about her to think it worth while to go back to help her and the people living there.

And I sometimes wonder if Daniel got stuck with the diplomatic stuff partly due to Jack's comment about 'that boy can sure grovel' -- just about all the alien races they meet seem to need a lot of that.

Daniel obviously thought well enough about her to think it worth while to go back to help her and the people living there.

I think he was more concerned about the hundreds of people working in unnecessary slavery, but... yeah. He did seem to think she was redeemable.

Jack's Fair Game line is just great, isn't it? But Daniel is really good at it by that point. Something had to kickstart the diplomacy, and I really do think it was this disaster.

Yeah, I can see him trying to research this -- does he look up negotiating with terrorists, or does this fit under hostage negotiation? And were cultural difference the biggest factors, or did gender shape the issue more?

I see lots of lists being made, then many, many trips to the library and long hours online digging out whatever could be found. And maybe hanging out with SGC's diplomats to pick their brains over coffee.

It's like with the gate addresses--you only see Daniel fumbling once for the address he's written down. After that, he's got them memorized.

Oh, yes, that would be exactly Daniel's approach - lots and lots and lots of research, and a burning determination to get it right.

He's never been all that good at the idea that his own skin might be worth preserving, but I do wonder if his regret over his actions in Need might have something to do with the mindset that let him dive through a window in Kelowna and later, in Shroud, persisted in thinking that a plan that involved endangering his own life but leaving the team safely behind was worth the insane risks.

Oh, I think Daniel's been of the mind-set to look out for others since eight--and his parents. As in dying himself isn't as bad as getting left behind.

dying himself isn't as bad as getting left behind

Oh, definitely, no question. But what happened in Need is different: he left the others behind, essentially. And I think that realization shook him a lot, and he has an almost unconscious compulsion to ensure that any future plans of his won't endanger anyone else but himself. As you yourself have mentioned more than once, Daniel loves the team, but doesn't quite get that team equals teamwork - so if he can execute some hair-brained scheme that will likely leave him half- or mostly-dead, but the rest of the team will be safe, he's likely to see it as a perfectly viable option.

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Redial the Gate: Need

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