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redial_the_gate goes live with the recap for Need. I watched the whole thing today for the first time in a long time, and it reminded me that no, I don't like this episode very much. What follows is rather meandering, just thinking out loud, rather than a coherent review of the ep.
Don't get me wrong: this episode is an important one, if for nothing else than dumping the get-out-of-dead-free sarcophagus card. If our heroes can come back to life so easily, where's the tension and drama? Mind you, they've come up with enough alternate ways to revive them... ;) But the sarcophagus did make it a little too easy. I'm glad that it's taken out of the picture this way, albeit not quite as completely as Jack might have liked, come Season Six.
We first learned that the sarcophagi do something to human beings in The Serpent's Lair, when Klorel tells Apophis that his host is strong, and he asks for more sarcophagus time to keep Skaara under wraps, so to speak. Now we find out that the Tok'ra don't use it, because it strips something from the soul. (And I am the only one to be surprised that the Goa'uld even have a word for "soul," when they're so convinced in their own immortality and divinity? If it was a Jaffa word, then yes. But why would the Goa'uld use the word in the first place?)
So what does this mean for Daniel's previous two sarcophagus hot washes - or three, since the first one here doesn't seem to affect him? Is it specifically sarcophagus usage when the body is healthy that damages the soul, or using it at all? Abyss suggests that repeated use has a bad effect no matter what the circumstances. Yet Daniel seems more or less his regular self until he goes in a second time, fully healthy. Not sure how to resolve that contradiction.
So, more of Sam's memories of the Tok'ra - and concrete this time. The introduction of naquadah as something Earth could use. One assumes that the raw ore is a lot lighter than the refined weapon's grade naquadah that weighed so much in Upgrades. And, wow - incredible team support in the aftermath. It was amazingly moving to watch Sam and Jack (and Teal'c, wordlessly) back up Daniel before General Hammond, giving them their faith and trust.
...Especially when Daniel betrayed it so badly. Which brings us to why the ep makes me uncomfortable.
I love to see Daniel. I don't much like to see MS playing a character who isn't Daniel, which is what we saw onscreen throughout more than half this episode. It makes me cringe to see Daniel spouting about his sudden improved eyesight, dozing on the throne, giggling and preening and everything else. With his brain chemistry so out of whack, that wasn't Daniel any more, and I hated having to watch him.
This was the first time I watched this episode with my Sam and Daniel friendship goggles in place, instead of watching it wholly from the Jack and Daniel POV, and wow. So much there that I missed - Sam trying to convince Jack (and herself) that they did the right thing by trying to escape and then by allowing the "Jaffa" to take Daniel away. Sam with him in the infirmary, and (ow) the confrontation in her lab. Rushing to catch him when he collapses. Don't get me wrong, the Jack and Daniel stuff is still heavy duty and amazing, but Sam and Daniel are superb here, too.
So, Daniel wakes up from his first time in the sarcophagus. Question one: "What's going on?" Question two: "My friends?" And again and again: "But my friends?" "Talk to your father now!" Daniel really was trying, and Shyla manipulated him like a master.
Shyla, now. Was she using the sarcophagus herself? She told Daniel it would make him feel better than he ever had - was that experience talking? And at the end, Daniel tells her, "You can't use this anymore." Did he mean that literally, that Shyla shouldn't continue to use it? Or that the ruler of the people couldn't use it, as Pyrus had done until then? If Shyla was using it, it explains a lot of her mannerisms... but it doesn't explain a suicide attempt, when she should have wanted her regular fix. And it doesn't explain her willingness to fire on the sarcophagus, at a time she was still addicted to it.
And yet, the way she manipulated Daniel... the little sigh of anticipation when Daniel lay down in the sarcophagus that second time, the way she deflected every question Daniel asked about the others and kept twisting things, even the way it's clear that Pyrus would accept anything she told him - he agreed to keep the others alive when she told him he'd said so, and she talked him into trusting Daniel to come back when she'd extracted a promise of marriage from him.
The episode saddens me because of what Daniel lost. I don't mean innocence; anyone who comes to this LJ frequently enough knows how I feel about Saint Daniel. But Daniel did lose a lot of his belief in the goodness of others, and a lot of belief in himself. Random's "Five and Five" touches on this and puts it better than I can, because when Jack says at the very beginning, "He has got to stop doing this" - well, Jack, he did. Never again do we see Daniel rushing off to save someone, even if the driving, desperate desire to save somebody, when he couldn't save Sha're, is still very much a part of him.
So how much is Daniel to blame for the situation? It's interesting that, despite the sarcophagus messing with his brain chemistry, he still - eventually - came through for his team, and even willingly went back to Earth. And it's the stark realization that he nearly killed Jack that finally snapped him out of it, even when he was still so messed up. So something of Daniel was still there, just as I think it was Daniel that furiously accused Jack of never showing him any respect - Daniel might think that sometimes, but it took the sarcophagus to make him feel it strongly enough and angrily enough to actually say it.
But no, I don't really blame Daniel for what he did under the sarcophagus' influence (I'm sure he blames himself plenty, and he clearly shows a strong need to atone by freeing the slaves and seeing the destruction of the sarcophagus.) What I do blame Daniel for is the appalling way he acted in that first feast with Pyrus. He was still himself then. Yet he allowed that "fascinated by science and discovery" aspect to overcome all common sense. Instead of flattering Pyrus, he blurted out that hey, Pyrus, you're using the sarcophagus to stay alive, you're running a scam, and you must be scared stiff of being found out! Way to be diplomatic, Daniel. No wonder Pyrus stomped out. Perhaps Daniel's later diplomatic efforts and talents were inspired by how badly he failed here.
Some questions:
Why didn't they dress Daniel in scrubs, instead of letting him sweat some more into the same uniform? And did anyone else cringe at the thought of a barefoot Daniel and all that broken glass on the floor of the storeroom?
"I'd like Daniel back on the team." Was Daniel officially removed from SG-1, then? Or was Jack speaking of Daniel returning from sick leave, and being back to himself?
Was Jack mistaken to try and make a break for it while Daniel's feet were still chained and without taking into account Daniel's inability to instantly assess a situation and move, unlike his military teammates? I'd say no, he had to take the chance, but how do others see it? Did Daniel actually die in the rockfall? And how cool was that axe-throw of Teal'c's?
Why didn't Pyrus and the false Jaffa kill Teal'c immediately? They must have been terrified at the idea of their ruse being discovered.
Shyla destroys the sarcophagus by blasting it when it's closed, something I didn't really notice until now. I always thought Hathor's was destroyed because it was ribboned on the inside. If sarcophagi are so fragile that a single staff weapon to the exterior fries it, how in the world do the Goa'uld keep them in running condition?
And why did Shyla insist on wearing her crown sideways? :)
redial_the_gate goes live with the recap for Need. I watched the whole thing today for the first time in a long time, and it reminded me that no, I don't like this episode very much. What follows is rather meandering, just thinking out loud, rather than a coherent review of the ep.Don't get me wrong: this episode is an important one, if for nothing else than dumping the get-out-of-dead-free sarcophagus card. If our heroes can come back to life so easily, where's the tension and drama? Mind you, they've come up with enough alternate ways to revive them... ;) But the sarcophagus did make it a little too easy. I'm glad that it's taken out of the picture this way, albeit not quite as completely as Jack might have liked, come Season Six.
We first learned that the sarcophagi do something to human beings in The Serpent's Lair, when Klorel tells Apophis that his host is strong, and he asks for more sarcophagus time to keep Skaara under wraps, so to speak. Now we find out that the Tok'ra don't use it, because it strips something from the soul. (And I am the only one to be surprised that the Goa'uld even have a word for "soul," when they're so convinced in their own immortality and divinity? If it was a Jaffa word, then yes. But why would the Goa'uld use the word in the first place?)
So what does this mean for Daniel's previous two sarcophagus hot washes - or three, since the first one here doesn't seem to affect him? Is it specifically sarcophagus usage when the body is healthy that damages the soul, or using it at all? Abyss suggests that repeated use has a bad effect no matter what the circumstances. Yet Daniel seems more or less his regular self until he goes in a second time, fully healthy. Not sure how to resolve that contradiction.
So, more of Sam's memories of the Tok'ra - and concrete this time. The introduction of naquadah as something Earth could use. One assumes that the raw ore is a lot lighter than the refined weapon's grade naquadah that weighed so much in Upgrades. And, wow - incredible team support in the aftermath. It was amazingly moving to watch Sam and Jack (and Teal'c, wordlessly) back up Daniel before General Hammond, giving them their faith and trust.
...Especially when Daniel betrayed it so badly. Which brings us to why the ep makes me uncomfortable.
I love to see Daniel. I don't much like to see MS playing a character who isn't Daniel, which is what we saw onscreen throughout more than half this episode. It makes me cringe to see Daniel spouting about his sudden improved eyesight, dozing on the throne, giggling and preening and everything else. With his brain chemistry so out of whack, that wasn't Daniel any more, and I hated having to watch him.
This was the first time I watched this episode with my Sam and Daniel friendship goggles in place, instead of watching it wholly from the Jack and Daniel POV, and wow. So much there that I missed - Sam trying to convince Jack (and herself) that they did the right thing by trying to escape and then by allowing the "Jaffa" to take Daniel away. Sam with him in the infirmary, and (ow) the confrontation in her lab. Rushing to catch him when he collapses. Don't get me wrong, the Jack and Daniel stuff is still heavy duty and amazing, but Sam and Daniel are superb here, too.
So, Daniel wakes up from his first time in the sarcophagus. Question one: "What's going on?" Question two: "My friends?" And again and again: "But my friends?" "Talk to your father now!" Daniel really was trying, and Shyla manipulated him like a master.
Shyla, now. Was she using the sarcophagus herself? She told Daniel it would make him feel better than he ever had - was that experience talking? And at the end, Daniel tells her, "You can't use this anymore." Did he mean that literally, that Shyla shouldn't continue to use it? Or that the ruler of the people couldn't use it, as Pyrus had done until then? If Shyla was using it, it explains a lot of her mannerisms... but it doesn't explain a suicide attempt, when she should have wanted her regular fix. And it doesn't explain her willingness to fire on the sarcophagus, at a time she was still addicted to it.
And yet, the way she manipulated Daniel... the little sigh of anticipation when Daniel lay down in the sarcophagus that second time, the way she deflected every question Daniel asked about the others and kept twisting things, even the way it's clear that Pyrus would accept anything she told him - he agreed to keep the others alive when she told him he'd said so, and she talked him into trusting Daniel to come back when she'd extracted a promise of marriage from him.
The episode saddens me because of what Daniel lost. I don't mean innocence; anyone who comes to this LJ frequently enough knows how I feel about Saint Daniel. But Daniel did lose a lot of his belief in the goodness of others, and a lot of belief in himself. Random's "Five and Five" touches on this and puts it better than I can, because when Jack says at the very beginning, "He has got to stop doing this" - well, Jack, he did. Never again do we see Daniel rushing off to save someone, even if the driving, desperate desire to save somebody, when he couldn't save Sha're, is still very much a part of him.
So how much is Daniel to blame for the situation? It's interesting that, despite the sarcophagus messing with his brain chemistry, he still - eventually - came through for his team, and even willingly went back to Earth. And it's the stark realization that he nearly killed Jack that finally snapped him out of it, even when he was still so messed up. So something of Daniel was still there, just as I think it was Daniel that furiously accused Jack of never showing him any respect - Daniel might think that sometimes, but it took the sarcophagus to make him feel it strongly enough and angrily enough to actually say it.
But no, I don't really blame Daniel for what he did under the sarcophagus' influence (I'm sure he blames himself plenty, and he clearly shows a strong need to atone by freeing the slaves and seeing the destruction of the sarcophagus.) What I do blame Daniel for is the appalling way he acted in that first feast with Pyrus. He was still himself then. Yet he allowed that "fascinated by science and discovery" aspect to overcome all common sense. Instead of flattering Pyrus, he blurted out that hey, Pyrus, you're using the sarcophagus to stay alive, you're running a scam, and you must be scared stiff of being found out! Way to be diplomatic, Daniel. No wonder Pyrus stomped out. Perhaps Daniel's later diplomatic efforts and talents were inspired by how badly he failed here.
Some questions:
Why didn't they dress Daniel in scrubs, instead of letting him sweat some more into the same uniform? And did anyone else cringe at the thought of a barefoot Daniel and all that broken glass on the floor of the storeroom?
"I'd like Daniel back on the team." Was Daniel officially removed from SG-1, then? Or was Jack speaking of Daniel returning from sick leave, and being back to himself?
Was Jack mistaken to try and make a break for it while Daniel's feet were still chained and without taking into account Daniel's inability to instantly assess a situation and move, unlike his military teammates? I'd say no, he had to take the chance, but how do others see it? Did Daniel actually die in the rockfall? And how cool was that axe-throw of Teal'c's?
Why didn't Pyrus and the false Jaffa kill Teal'c immediately? They must have been terrified at the idea of their ruse being discovered.
Shyla destroys the sarcophagus by blasting it when it's closed, something I didn't really notice until now. I always thought Hathor's was destroyed because it was ribboned on the inside. If sarcophagi are so fragile that a single staff weapon to the exterior fries it, how in the world do the Goa'uld keep them in running condition?
And why did Shyla insist on wearing her crown sideways? :)
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I resolve it by assuming that the sarcophagus "high" that Daniel suffers here and the long-term "soul damage" are two separate (if possibly related) side effects. I think that the drug type effect is a direct result of using the sarcophagus when you're too healthy to need it - pretty much the equivalent of getting high on painkillers when you're not actually in pain. Maybe it hits Goa'uld faster and harder because they're using the sarcophagus on top of their natural healing powers, and that's why the Tok'ra are wary of it. (Also, they were talking about using the sarcophagus to prolong lifespan, which presumably means popping yourself in on a regular basis to repair the minor effects of aging rather than an actual injury.)
I think the "soul damage" is a slower, more insidious thing, and possibly has more to do with being healed from dying than just using the sarcophagus per se. Presumably there's brain damage each time Baal kills Jack, and the sarcophagus must have to make a 'best guess' how to repair the stuff that's been lost. And maybe it can do that with 99.99% or greater accuracy, so the first few times you wouldn't even notice a difference... but that error is cumulative. Each time he dies and is revived, he's lost a few more braincells, a tiny fraction more of the memories and mental connections that make him who he is. Like the Asgard and their clones, it's a slightly less perfect reproduction each time. Maybe that's what Daniel meant by, "it's destroying who you are".
Such is my fanwanky theory, anyway.
no subject
Interesting handwave re Abyss, although it doesn't the answer the Daniel question. By the time he "willingly" (aka "is blackmailed") into returning into the sarc, he's already been healed from death once, and twice from mostly dead. Does it matter how much time passes, for example? How long did Ra wait to dump Daniel in the sarc, and how much did it affect him?
no subject
Yes, I think time elapsed makes a big difference, and that's why it's bad for Jack even though he needs the healing. One can heal from the effects of the sarcophagus too, but it takes time--and in "Need," Daniel has almost no time between sessions in it for the effects to dissipate.
"Need" makes me sad for the same reasons it makes you sad, but I think it's a really good episode even though (or because?) it's so very painful to watch. Michael Shanks does an amazing job. In a lot of ways, that isn't Daniel, but we see bits of his true self peeking through, and he comes through in the end.
Yes, I'm terribly bothered by his being barefoot in broken glass! From fanfics I've read, I think others are too--but I haven't liked a lot of the fanfic that goes with this episode, and I've pretty much stopped reading it. I've also only watched the episode once; even though I think highly of it, I'm in no hurry to see it again. Is that sort of how you feel, or are you less convinced it's a good episode?
no subject
I think it speaks a lot to Daniel's strength of character that he did, in fact, get the team out, and came back with them. Of course, he still didn't recognize (admit?) that he was addicted at that point, and that coming down wouldn't be fun.
There are lots and lots and lots and lots of ep tags for this, mostly regarding the team hovering near Daniel round the clock to help him get back to himself, which can get a bit... cloying after a while. (One even tried to resolve Daniel of all blame altogether by asserting that the sarc was broken and always ran a double-cycle, which means that poor Saint Daniel was addicted even after the first time. No comment.) I did rec a Need ep tag today, in honor of the occasion - but it's a Random fic, which means sharp and pointed and real instead of mushy hurt/comfort, heh. But I really remember only one fic that addresses the cuts on Daniel's feet.
I do think the ep is a good one, and I think all the actors, particularly MS and RDA, did a superb job. But when I do rewatch it, I tend to skip straight to the SGC bits, and skip all the (for me) painful stuff on the planet.
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