Redial the Gate: 1969

[fignewton]

Sadly, I do have enough time today to write an appropriate squeeful post for 1969.

I LOVE THIS EP SO MUCH.

"Nyet!"

"Captain James T. Kirk" and "The name is Skywalker. Luke Skywalker!"

Young!Hammond, and wow did that actor get the right voice and mannerisms!

Teal'c's hitchhiking techniques!

The war with Canada!

Sam getting amused by the whole experience and wearing literal rose-colored glasses!

DANIEL TEACHING TEAL'C TO DRIVE. ::melts into a puddle::

Teal'c wearing that outfit and being as awesome and suave as ever!

Jack managing to snag a leather jacket!

"A long, long time ago." "From a galaxy far, far away." (You liar, Jack, claiming in S5 you've never seen Star Wars...)

Catherine!

Daniel's pathetic attempt at German, and blinking innocently!

Cassie!

Hammond, smiling at the team at the end. ::happy sigh::

Here's a question for discussion for you, because I've heard vastly differing opinions on the subject:

When Michael speaks of his fears about being drafted, Jack bursts out, "Michael..." and Sam interrupts him. "Sir, you can't say anything." What was Jack going to say? Suggest he make a run for it? Tell him that it'll be ugly, but it needs to be done? Tell him that he knows that in a few years, he's going to save the life of a wet-behind-the-ears cadet named Jack O'Neill, so he has to go? :)

Remember Jack's age, and his profession. The guy won't be anti-war. At the same time - he's been there. He knows how bleak it can be. So...?

ETA: The redial_the_gate recap is up!

Comments

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Such a wonderful episode!

When Michael speaks of his fears about being drafted, Jack bursts out, "Michael..." and Sam interrupts him. "Sir, you can't say anything." What was Jack going to say? Suggest he make a run for it? Tell him that it'll be ugly, but it needs to be done? Tell him that he knows that in a few years, he's going to save the life of a wet-behind-the-ears cadet named Jack O'Neill, so he has to go?

I actually had a whole discussion on my LJ about this (http://abyssinia4077.livejournal.com/149450.html) last summer.

I've wavered about this a lot because on the one hand, I do think of Jack as thinking of himself as someone who does the dirty work so somebody else won't have to - he's already lost so he doesn't want others to end up that way too (I read a lot of that into the Netu flashback where he won't let Charlie have even a toy water gun - he emphatically does NOT want Charlie to follow in his footsteps). So on that hand, I can see him trying to save Michel from being dirtied (and Vietnam was nasty) and I can also see Jack thinking that nobody should be forced to end up serving and doing those things - that it should be their choice.

On the other hand, my personal canon (based on his ribbons and medals and age and such) is that Jack did serve in Vietnam - I go back and forth on whether I think he enlisted or was drafted - and he does believe deeply in service and honor and I think draft-dodging would deeply offend/disgust him. The Jack in my head believes that if your country calls upon you to serve it, you answer.

Also he sounds, well, angry when he says "Micheal" which speaks to me more of being about to lecture about what he owes his country and following the law.

But I could still go either way....

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

Also he sounds, well, angry when he says "Micheal" which speaks to me more of being about to lecture about what he owes his country and following the law.

Yeah, I hear that "Daniel..." voice, which means a lecture is about to follow that sometimes things have to be done.

My feeling with Jack and Charlie is that, yeah, Jack would rather keep kids out of stuff like this. (Look at the lengths he goes to for Merrin in Learing Curve--protecting kids is a real hot button.) But I think since Micheal is an adult, it'd be more about facing up to responsibilties.

Sam's got to step in because Jack shouldn't influence Micheal either for or against--but I think Jack would be about duty here.

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

It's not just the "Nyet!" -- but Daniel then turns around to explain to the guys what was just said, all very much in the translating what the natives have said, instead of processing any of this.

Someone noted in a fic that Daniel's got two modes--either what he's thinking comes straight out, or you can't get anything out of him.

And the whole fireside scene--just my favorite with Jack hading out the soup, and Sam thinking about solar flares, and Daniel going all wided-eyed, which is when you know he's really lying. And the whole 'we're aliens who have trouble with the establishment on our own world'....

And Teal'c in pink!

Makes up for all the brain hurting fudging the plot to make it work stuff.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I hear that "Daniel..." voice, which means a lecture is about to follow that sometimes things have to be done.

Exactly.

The adult thing makes sense to me. Also, well, assuming Jack *did* fight in Vietnam, there's a decent chance he has a strong knee-jerk reaction to draft dodgers of that era (considering he then chose the military as a career since there are people who fought there who left very anti-military and probably would have encouraged Michael to Canada)

Because, yes, Sam did what she had to.

[kalquessa.livejournal.com]

The war with Canada! I knew I forgot to mention one of my favorite lines in my recap...Teal'c just wins at life in this ep.

[kalquessa.livejournal.com]

Oh, and you should totally post your Michael question on Redial as soon as the post goes up, because that way my complete lack of any serious questions will be sort of made-up for. *fails at seriousness*

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I saw it more as frustration than anger. I don't see a lecture there as much as pain.

I love both your takes on this - that Jack doesn't want to see someone else have to do the dirty work, but that Jack also solidly believes in duty. It's that very dichotomy that makes him so delightfully Jack.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I never thought of that "Michael..." in the same terms as "Daniel..." - but yes. Definitely the same vibe.

Another good point, that Charlie was a child and Michael (and DANIEL) are adults with responsibilities.

Another vote for duty, yep.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

How much do I adore how difficult it is to turn off Daniel when he's in off-world mode? Seriously, it's hilarious. He's all earnest and translating and - then the other shoe drops. Oops. :)

Daniel's got two modes--either what he's thinking comes straight out, or you can't get anything out of him.


Heh. I'd say that Daniel talks a lot in any circumstances, but he's a master at talking in excess without actually giving anything away.

Yes, I love the "establishment" line. And Teal'c in pink is most definitely worth the plot holes big enough for a Stargate to fall through! :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I don't understand how people can fail to fall in love with Teal'c at any time. I mean, isn't it obvious? :)

I'll include a link to this post in the fanworks section and mention the Michael question. Thanks for reminding me.

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

I wonder if Jack knew for certain what he would have said, or how he'd want to influence Michael? I mean, he has a tendency to speak without stopping to think about it, sometimes - he'd have a knee-jerk reaction, but he might also have other things that, if he was allowed and if they had time, he might also say to Michael.

I tend to think that he'd be thinking a little of both. Mainly because of the discussion with Abyssis back last year, I feel his gut reaction would be to tell Michael he shouldn't hide from it. But I do think that he'd feel the other way, too - that he's come to know Michael a little, and he doesn't want him to be hurt. I think randomfreshink definitely has a point, above, about Michael being an adult. If Michael were younger and/or more vulnerable (he seems pretty capable and savvy, overall, with the roadtrip across America and all that), Jack might feel more inclined towards protectiveness.

Jack pushes for those "or" solutions because he believes in people putting themselves into harm's way, if it's necessary, but he really, really would rather that Sam or Daniel come up with a miraculous third alternative.

[writinginct.livejournal.com]

My thoughts on what Jack was going to say to Michael were pretty firm the first time I saw this eppy- and surprisingly they haven't changed after years of SG-1 and several re-watches.

I think Jack was gearing up to give Michael a "pep" talk. Jack, if nothing else, is a good CO. He knows how to command men, and knows the fear in young soldiers, especially those in war. I don't think it was going to be a "duty" talk so much as a "this is what you do to get through it" talk.

I just can't see Jack telling anyone to dodge the draft. Not saying that he supports the "idea" of the draft, and not saying he wouldn't voice his distaste for it, but I just don't see him encouraging anyone to dodge. JMHO.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Good point - Jack might have blurted out Michael's name, but who knows? He might have not been able to go on, even if Sam hadn't stopped him.

I, too, think it was both sides - that he knew the chances were high that Michael would get killed, but that the idea of someone turning their backs on their responsibilities would anger him.

"Where there's a will, there's an or." ::nods:: Jack will never stop pushing for that "or," will he?

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

Like so many of you, I can't see Jack advocating draft dodging. But we know that Jack knows a few things that Michael doesn't. The war was winding down, Ho Chi Minh would die in September of '69 and the US government had been conducting secret peace talks since '68 that would lead to the '73 Peace Accord. But that doesn't change the fact that soldiers were still dying in Vietnam, Saigon didn't fall until April '75. Much as Jack might have wanted to say these things, Sam was right to stop him from saying anything at all.

As for Jack having served in Vietnam, Arduinna does a pretty good job of dispelling this given that 1) Jack's stated age (Brief Candle) would have made him 18 years old the year the last troops would have been pulled out (1975) and 2) two of the Vietnam medals he wears were last awarded in 1973, when Jack would have been 16 years old and would have had to have joined at 15 in order to have earned them. http://stargatehandbook.org/sg1/

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

::nods:: No, I can't see Jack encouraging draft dodgers, either. I love your point that Jack is really good at inspiring command.

And yes, despite his ambiguous feelings (knowing what's coming, knowing the chances of Michael surviving), it's hard to believe him telling someone to run.

Wishing he might be able to, maybe...

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this decision with Michael would've been as agonizing as not picking up the phone to tell Sam's mother to stay out of taxicabs or Daniel's parents to stay out from under cornerstones. But I still can't see Jack saying anything. I do like the idea that randomfreshink suggests, that Jack blurted Michael's name and might not have even known what he was going to say!

I am not touching Jack's age for canon vs. fanon. Nope, nope, nope. :)

[lilyleia78]

::makes big green puppydog eyes at you::

But you did Sam and Daniel. Equal time! ;>

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

We all know there are differences between written and spoken canon. Sam's birth month leaps instantly to mind. Entity, when their IDs are screen-capped shows October, I think and Orlin says it's May when he builds her an emerald for Ascension. Frankly, I don't even think the writers pay attention to this stuff half the time.
I do agree that the way Jack said 'Michael!' sounds an awful lot like he usually says 'Daniel!'.

And I can't believe I forgot to mention how 'Mod Squad' Teal'c was in his '60's threads. He was like the coolest Linc ever. http://www.imdb.com/media/rm336499456/tt0062589

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Equal time for canon vs. fanon? When, to date, at least half of them focus exclusively on Daniel? That would probably be a no. :)

I do have another Jack c vs. f in mind (I'm trying to work out whether the Jack and Daniel one should be part of the Jack one, or separate), but the thing is that the essays focus on contrasting fanon with canon. The argument that Sam is older than Daniel, that she thinks of him as a little brother, is found in hundreds of fics. Daniel's childhood (more so than his age) being full of kicks and abuse is found in thousands of fics. That makes them fanon. Jack's age, though...? I've seen contrasts from eight years to fifteen years older than Daniel, but nothing so frequent I can point to it and say, "This is fanon, and it's contradicted by canon."

...Especially when there's precious little to use for canon proof for Jack's age in the first place. :)

[lilyleia78]

Well, if things are going to be unbalanced at least they're tipped in the right direction!

I'm just happy for any f vs. c. I'm very new to the fandom (only up to season 4 on DVD) and it's nice to read your stuff for that reason. Instead of assuming that Jack's going to start saying 'Danny' a lot more I know that it's a big exaggeration. Just as an example. So thanks for doing that!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes, we're very fond of Daniel here... :)

Hurray for new fans! You do know that there are spoilers for later seasons in the c vs. f series, though, right? But I'm glad you're enjoying them!

[lilyleia78]

Thanks! And yeah about the spoilers. When you come to a fandom this late it's impossible to avoid them. I can't imagine there's anything big that's going to happen I don't already know, but it's still fun to see them myself. And the small stuff is still a fun surprise.

[collswan.livejournal.com]

DANIEL TEACHING TEAL'C TO DRIVE. ::melts into a puddle::

I'm so right there with you.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

There is never enough Teal'c and Daniel friendship fic!

Still playing catchup? :) S4 starts tomorrow - you're definitely getting there.