Canon vs. Fanon, part 6: The Care and Feeding of Archeologists, part 3

[fignewton]

After digressing to AUs and dreamscapes, we return to The Care and Feeding of Archeologists, part 3. After some consideration, I've decided that Daniel's drinking habits and penchant for candy and chocolate do not actually fall into this category, so we'll get to them next time.

Brief recap: Canon is defined as anything directly shown during Stargate: The Movie or episodes of the show, with show superseding the movie when there's a contradiction. (Abydos is one of the closest stargates to Earth, not in a different galaxy.) Fanon is defined as widely-accepted concepts that appear in fanfic, but do not have any real basis in canon.

As always, if I've missed any canon appearances which support or contradict my analysis, I would greatly appreciate it if you'd point that out in the comments.

The Care and Feeding of Archeologists, part 3

Daniel, as "The Girl" of SG-1, ends up in the infirmary so often he practically has a reserved bed; everyone in the SGC knows this and expects him to be hurt.

Daniel did, technically, serve as "the girl" for the first years of SG-1; he had the least military training and, by virtue of his status as speaker for the group and explorer of the unknown, the greatest opportunities to get into trouble. However, it might come as a surprise to some to discover that his infirmary visits aren't quite as frequent as fanfic would suggest – or, at least, not out of proportion in comparison to the other human members of the team.

Let's take a look at Daniel's injuries and his visits to the infirmary, comparing them with Jack's and Sam's. (Teal'c, thanks to Junior, naturally has a lesser number of infirmary visits to his credit. Kudos to the writers for giving us Orpheus, with Teal'c's unnaturally [to him] slow recovery and his difficulty in dealing with it. And yes, Teal'c manages to get plenty of infirmary time, too; but right now, we're just comparing the humans.) Since I'm trying to compare Sam and Jack and Daniel, I'm only going to make a tally of the first eight seasons. (Shall we say that Daniel's year off is mitigated by Jack's year on base?) That's a rather transparent excuse to avoid Seasons 9 and 10, which I don't really know well enough for the purpose – and, quite frankly, am uninterested in watching all over again for research. (Sorry, aurora_novarum!)

Visits to the infirmary to try and find out what's wrong, but without any resulting treatment – such as One False Step – don't count. Routine examinations are also not included. Also, visits to the infirmary that we assume take place after the ep ended – for example, Jack in Brief Candle, or Daniel in FIAD  – are not counted. (I made an exception with Solitudes,  as explained below.) "Infirmary" is defined as on-world medical treatment, even if it's not on Level 25 of the SGC.

I've left out Tin Man for all three of them, since the medical monitoring was of the androids, and not themselves. Also, the deaths of Sam and Jack in Ancient Egypt never happened in our timeline, so they don't count.

Important! If you disagree with any of my analyses, please drop me a comment and say so! I'll be happy to debate it with you, and I've even been known to change my mind on occasion. :) Also, if I've missed anything, let me know about that, too – especially if it's a Jack or Sam infirmary incident in Season 6, where I'm kinda vague for some odd reason…

Through Season 8, Daniel received medical attention onscreen eighteen times.

Of those, six were simply monitoring the situation – Need, Urgo, Upgrades, Absolute Power, The Fifth Man, and Lifeboat.

One was off-world, in Icon. (I include Rand as an infirmary-type visit, even though it's off-world, because, unlike most off-world treatments, it's not a higher-level technology than what can be had on Earth.)

Of the eleven remaining, three were "outpatient" treatments: Politics (or TBFTGOG, which is where the injury occurs, if you prefer), Menace, and Evolution, part 2, although that last one can probably be argued either way.

Conclusion: in eight seasons of Stargate, Daniel was ill/injured badly enough to require an actual stay in the infirmary eight times: Solitudes, Need, Holiday, Legacy, Nemesis, The Light, Meridian, and Lockdown.

Daniel also died five times: in Stargate: The Movie; The Nox; The Light (see below); Meridian; and Reckoning, part 2. . (Isn't it fun to be part of a fandom where that can be listed in the plural?)

Regarding The Light: Daniel went from a coma to flatlining. The deaths of SG-5 confirm that Janet could not have been resuscitated Daniel if Jack hadn't gotten him back to the planet, so he would have stayed dead. By getting him back to P4X-347, Jack actually brought him back to life.

Here are Jack's stats, over the same time period:

Through Season 8, Jack received medical attention onscreen nineteen times. I don't include Fragile Balance, as it's Jack's clone who gets medical treatment, not Jack himself.

Of those, three were simply monitoring the situation: Urgo, Upgrades and Divide and Conquer.

            Of the sixteen remaining, seven were "outpatient" treatments: Fire and Water (for shock), Spirits, Message in a Bottle, Show and Tell, Legacy, The Light, and Enemy Mine.

            Hathor was unique: on-world, but treatment via supra-Tau'ri technology, when the sarcophagus un-Jaffa'd him.

Conclusion: in eight seasons of Stargate, Jack was ill/injured badly enough to require an actual stay in the infirmary eight times: The Broca Divide, Solitudes, A Matter of Time, Crystal Skull, Desperate Measures, Frozen, Abyss, and Heroes, part 2. (I include Solitudes, even though the ep ends before the actual hospitalization, because it's so implicit.)

Jack also died six times: in The Nox; Message in a Bottle; and four times in Abyss, once from a staff weapon and three times through torture.

(Clarification: Jack did, indeed, have to die in MiaB before the thingies ["We are"] could start speaking through his body; they restored him to full health when they left for their new home. As for Abyss, it seems pretty clear that Jack was killed when captured and revived before Ba'al even got started. There might have been more recyclings through the sarcophagus than what we see onscreen, but I stuck to what we actually witness.)

Now let's look at Sam's stats, over the same time period, with the caveat that, unlike Jack and Daniel, she had eight full seasons of whumping available.

Through Season 8, Sam received medical attention onscreen sixteen times.

            Of those, six were simply monitoring the situation: Legacy, Urgo, Upgrades, Divide and Conquer, Ascencion, and The Fifth Man. (Legacy is a bit iffy, I know; but she was stuck in the infirmary for the interim. And Ascension was little more than repeated tests, checking her for signs of who-knows-what after she reported Orlin's existence.)

            Of the ten remaining, two involved outpatient treatment: The Enemy Within and Fire and Water, both for shock and the subsequent hypnosis session.

Conclusion: in eight seasons of Stargate, Sam was ill/injured badly enough to require an actual stay in the infirmary eight times: The Broca Divide, Solitudes, In the Line of Duty, Crystal Skull, Entity, Prophecy, Grace, and Death Knell. (As with Jack, I include Solitudes, even though the ep ends before the actual hospitalization, because it's implicit.)

Sam also died twice: in The Nox and in Entity. (Behind the curve, poor woman!)

"So… just to, uh, clarify…"

Daniel's totals: 17 medical treatments on-world, including 8 infirmary stays; 5 deaths.

Jack's totals: 19 medical treatments on-world, including 8 infirmary stays; 6 deaths.

Sam's totals: 16 medical treatments on-world, including 8 infirmary stays; 2 deaths.

Conclusion: despite fanon's insistence on giving Daniel his own nameplate over his own personal bed in the infirmary, Daniel has not needed medical care on-world more than any of the other members of SG-1. Therefore, Hammond and/or Janet will not automatically assume that it's Daniel who's been hurt when SG-1 returns through the Stargate.

(We might get to more general whumping-comparisons in a later post, including supra-Tau'ri medical care off-world, but for now, we'll leave it at that!)

Daniel's teammates spend hours at his bedside, waiting for him to awaken.

This one actually has some solid canon basis to it, with an intriguing extra twist!

Solitudes. While Teal'c was not there constantly – he was in the Gateroom when Siler and Hammond were discussing how long it would take to get the Stargate operation again – Teal'c was there, at Daniel's bedside, when he finally opened his eyes. I have a special fondness for "blurred eyesight" camera mode.

Need. Jack isn't at Daniel's bedside – no one is – but he watches a restrained Daniel through the observation window. He looks away at the crucial moment when Daniel throws Janet across the room and beats the guard into submission, but he's right there to go chasing after Daniel and corner him in the storeroom.

Holiday. Once they know that he's Daniel and not just a confused old man, Sam spends much of her time at his side. Teal'c and Jack are busy coping with their own complications.

Legacy. Jack is there when Daniel first wakes up in the infirmary after the closet hallucination. Jack also keeps Daniel company when he's confined to the VIP room. Later, after Daniel is transferred to Mental Health, the entire team comes to see him.

Nemesis. Jack visits Daniel some time after the appendectomy to check up on him and suggests fishing as the ideal convalescence.

Absolute Power. Intriguingly enough, Daniel's vision has Janet, clearly following orders, calling Jack to tell him when Daniel wakes up – but the reality has Jack watching at Daniel's bedside, until he's called away to deal with Aldwin and the testing of Shifu. A suggestion, perhaps, that Shifu's dreamscape demanded a distancing from friends?

The Light. Jack leaves Daniel only long enough to go to the planet and search for answers. On his return, he stays at Daniel's bedside until Janet realizes that he, too, is showing symptoms.

Meridian. The entire team takes turns either watching Daniel from the observation window or saying goodbye to him, one at a time – and, of course, they're all there when he ascends.

Lifeboat. They are not allowed into the room with him, but they take turns watching through the observation window, especially Jack.

Lockdown. They come to check on him after surgery, but they're busy talking to Brightman when the call comes that he has awakened. Once they hear that he's conscious, though, they all rush to see him.

Conclusion: It is definitely canonical that the team stays with Daniel, or at least often visits with Daniel, when he is in the infirmary – but not all of them at once, except for extreme cases, like actual death.

("…extreme cases, like actual death." I really, really love this fandom.)

Teal'c cradles an unconscious Daniel in his arms, like a child.

Sorry, writers, but this one is completely invented, with no canon basis whatsoever!

We see Daniel carried a grand total of twice. Once by Teal'c, and once by Jack. In The Broca Divide, Teal'c carried a tranqued Daniel from the "dark side" of the planet to The Land of Light in a fireman's carry, over both shoulders. And in The Light, Jack grabbed a flatlined Daniel off his gurney, threw him over one shoulder, and carried him through the Gate back to P4X-347.

That's. It.

Was Daniel carried to the dungeon in COTG? He had to have been, and it might even have been Teal'c in his position as First Prime, but I very much doubt any cradling was happening at the time. In TBFTGOG, we don't know if Daniel was capable of walking back to the Stargate or not. Was Daniel carried from Hadante's Stargate back to Linnea's quarters after he was nearly choked to death? Certainly, and probably by Teal'c. Do we know how Teal'c carried him? Nope. Daniel had to be carried from the mines to the sarcophagus, but we don't know by whom. And in FIAD, like TBFTGOG, we have no confirmation as to whether Daniel needed to be carried, or was capable of making it on his own.

Conclusion: There is no canon basis at all for the fanon suggestion that Teal'c cradles Daniel in his arms when he is carrying him to safety.

The nurses are so enamored of Daniel that there's a lottery to determine which lucky woman gets to give him an unnecessary sponge bath.

I admit that this one, and variations thereof, always amuses me. The idea that the nurses squabble over Daniel-duties, or make sure his scrubs match the color of his eyes… To be frank, this is basically Daniel-drooling on the part of the author, with no basis for it at all. Amusing, yes, but… still.

We've met very little of the medical staff outside Janet, Warner, Mackenzie, Brightman, and Lam. There's Lieutenant Evans, the nurse who was temporarily possessed by Anubis; Carmichael, the doctor summoned to deal with the mounting crisis in Avatar; and Nimzicki, who was killed by Kawalsky in The Enemy Within. So any speculation about members of the medical staff having crushes on Daniel is just that – speculation. And while it's relatively harmless, it is unquestionably pure fanon.

And while we're on the subject of fanon about the nurses: is there, in fact, a "Nurse Clark" that appears for even a single second's worth of time onscreen, whether or not she's as inept as so many fanfics would suggest? No? How about a "Nurse Ellen," apparently much nicer and sweeter and more efficient than Nurse Clark? Huh. Thought so.

Conclusion: There is no canon basis at all for the suggestion that much of the medical staff harbors a crush on Daniel and enjoy working on him.

My personal fanon opinion? Daniel-whumping can be fun, but not when it becomes whumping for whumping's sake; authors would be wise to keep it in proportion. Six feet of archeologist cannot be easily cradled in one's arms, even if those arms happen to belong to Teal'c. And the medical staff of the SGC is a lot more professional than some fanfic writers would suggest.

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

And is anyone out there creative enough to make up an icon for these meta posts?

ETA: Whee!! Look at the icon cyren_2132 made for me!  ::bounce bounce::

Comments

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

I agree with all of this. You know what else I've noticed a lot of when it comes to hospitalized Daniel? A lot of authors seem to make him really pissy and on the last nerve of the entire medical staff until either Sam placates him with his favorite fresh-baked (at a bakery) cookie or Jack does some parental-ish thing that "always worked with Charlie."

And similar to the "Daniel never eats or sleeps" cases of earlier, there's also a lot of "Daniel never admits he's sick or when he is sick he never takes anything for it."

First, the idea just seems silly, because Daniel doesn't seem like the type to be all "I don't feel good, but I guess I'll just suffer and not really be able to concentrate on my work rather than take a pill," and second, we've already seen him popping pills in "Legacy".

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

You know, I bought into the Daniel always saying "I'm fine" thing when he isn't, until someone else (either moonshayde or redbyrd_sgfic) pointed out to me that that is a lot of fanon.

Offhand I recall, they ask if he's fine in "Secrets", and his response is no. I'm not saying he doesn't brush off worrying about him when there's more to concern the team with, like you know, saving the galaxy (or the rest of the team), but he doesn't necessarily hide/diminish his injuries for tis own sake.

I also don't recall that he's ever refused medication/ivs per se.

A whole new fanon v canon entry! LOL.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Replying to both you and cyren, here! :)

I don't think I've read much childish!Daniel fics - probably because any story that portrays him as so immature in the first place isn't going to be one that I'm going to be able to finish. I have a personal strong dislike for fics that suggest that Jack sees Daniel as a stand-in for Charlie, anyway.

And I do agree with you, that the "Daniel overworks himself into he's sick and doesn't take of himself until he's serious" fics are written with the same fanon brush as "Daniel would absentmindedly starve himself if we didn't feed him" and "Daniel would sleep at his desk six nights out of seven if we didn't shoo him off to bed." Of course, if we look at the workings of the SGC through a logical lens (heresy, I know!), then we would have to concede that SG team members must be the healthiest people on the planet - they undergo so much medical testing that the littlest cold germs couldn't possibly sneak under Little Doc's radar.

Refuse to take medication? No, that's certainly not canon - unless you include his attempt to refuse sedation in Legacy, which I wouldn't. OTOH - yes, there actually is some canon basis for the "I'm fine!" thingy, although fanon does carry it to an extreme. Is it enough for another entry? Sure, why not? ;) The more I research these things, the more topics I discover. And boy, is it fun. :)

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

wow! clearly i've missed a lot of badfic in this fandom. lucky me!!! or maybe there's a whole subset of H/C that i just haven't checked out.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Hee! H/C fic is wonderful, when there's a solid basis for the hurt and proportional comfort. But there's a reason why crackfics tend to portray Daniel stumbling through the Gate with a splinter in his little finger and Janet calling for the defribillator - a lot of writers tend to exaggerate things out the wazoo, and write stories with the sole purpose of whumping Daniel extremely so that we can see extreme comfort afterwards. I confess that I occasionally read some of the better-written of these. It's kind of a guilty pleasure. :) Can't see myeslf ever reccing one of them, though.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Huh, I never much thought about how canon it is for the team to be watching one of their own in the infirmary. I know it's really overly emphasized in the fic though (raises hand as a guilty party myself--it's great emotional fodder).

But I think you're right, Daniel's no more or less likely to get into infirmary level trouble than the rest of the team (or maybe even some of the other SG teams).

I never noticed the nurses. I mean I've noticed the sponge bath comments, LOL, but I didn't realize specific names had become part of fandom, I just thought they were random names (hell, I don't remember my own character names half the time, remembering other people's? LOL).

Can I just say I love you mentioned poor Nimzicky? Poor redshirt doctor.

Oh, what about Daniel v. MacKensie fanon v. canon? Is that a later post too? And I'm still awaiting the results of your alcohol survey.

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

Ooh, interesting. There *is* a whole lot of "Daniel hates Mackenzie with the power of a nova" fic. That's an interesting topic, because there *was* the whole thing with Daniel being committed in Legacy, which I'm sure would not have left him pleased.

On the other hand, I don't remember much else, and he seemed to acknowledge that he was "being such a headcase," and Mackenzie did listen to him in the end. So, I guess the real question is how much of that Daniel would be willing to shrug off and get over based on the situation at the time and his general personality (which I always thought was very forgiving, until the episode with Woolsey and Khalek (9.09: Prototype) (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/909.shtml).

But I suppose that's much more of a subjective topic than one where instances can clearly be counted to form conclusions.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Oh, I did MacKenzie's bio (http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/MacKenzie), so I have done some research on this.

MacKenzie has appeared five times (sometimes in abstentia) on SG-1.

He was the first(only) doc around in the pilot, and studied the Jaffa left after Apophis's raid. No correlation to Daniel yay or nay.

He tried to find out if the team was brainwashed in "Fire and Water", and his soothing stuff brought memories back for Teal'c, later putting Sam under hypnosis revealed the truth about Nem. So MacKenzie indirectly helped "save" Daniel there (well, Daniel had made friends, but still! A for effort!)

Jack showed a distaste of all shrinks, and particularly MacKenzie...which was followed by Legacy...

MacKenzie WAS very closed minded about Daniel's symptoms. Believing them to be schizophrenia. Although, Janet agreed with his prognosis. And like you said, he did listen to Daniel and called the SGC. So, a mixed result there.

Then there was "Threshold", a non-related Daniel appearance. The interpretation of MacKenzie is mixed there. Did he really believe he was cured there? Was he part of the ruse with the others to test Teal'c? How much was a test? However, he did treat Teal'c with therapy. I have my own theories about him, but MMV.

The last MacKenzie "appearance" was in "Lifeboat", where he studied Daniel's MRIs and agreed it looked like twelve different consciousnesses were in Daniel, in fact confirming Daniel WASN'T crazy.

Poor MacKenzie, villified when two out of three times he did the right thing. ;-) [/tongue partially in cheek]

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Okay, interest definitely whetted. Especially since you did research for me. Although I've always been highly amused to consider that the SGC had been so stripped of resources, before Aphophis came through, that they had to depend on the base's psychiatrist to do an autopsy!

I think you've convinced me, here. We'll tackle Daniel and Mackenzie one of these days. Especially since some of the fics are really extreme - I've seen him labeled as an NID agent, expressly ordered to get Daniel out of the SGC, or with a personal vendetta, deliberately overdosing him and wheeling him out to some horrific fate...

Fanon. Annoying as it is sometimes, you gotta love it. :)

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

Huh, I never much thought about how canon it is for the team to be watching one of their own in the infirmary. I know it's really overly emphasized in the fic though (raises hand as a guilty party myself--it's great emotional fodder).

Note that if it's used a lot, it's the canon writers' fault. It started with Season 1, Episode 2, Enemy Within, Jack visiting Kawalsky in the infirmary.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Note that if it's used a lot, it's the canon writers' fault. It started with Season 1, Episode 2, Enemy Within, Jack visiting Kawalsky in the infirmary.

Actually, it started even early than that, in COTG: Jack goes to check on Ferretti, finds Kawalsky at his bedside, and the two of them exchange enough words to make it clear that Kawalksy plans to stay there all night.

Yep, yep, canon. And a lovely bit. Still - overemphasized in fanon. To the extreme.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Can I just say I love you mentioned poor Nimzicky? Poor redshirt doctor.

Heh heh. Redbyrd actually breathed some life into the poor fellow before he got killed. :)

It's nice that "the team keeps watch in the infirmary" is canon, isn't it? OTOH, it's really OTT to have them parked there for hours on end, when they have other duties and responsibilities. As with all fanon things, the key is moderation. Unfortunately, too many fanfic writers prefer to smash the door in, instead.

Alcohol survey next week! Mackenzie - hmmmmm. ::rubs hands together::

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

I will be good and not go into a rant about all of my fanon pet-peeves. I'll just say that these posts should be required reading for the fandom. *nods*

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Welcome! And thanks for the lovely compliment. ::blushes::

Oh, go ahead and rant. Rants are fun. And if you have a good one that hasn't occurred to me as yet, I might even take it up for you. :)

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

Are you only focusing on Daniel or are you doing this for the whole team? 'cause Jack as an overbearing yenta who mothers the team (usually Daniel) gets me every time. I mean, he cares, yes, but he also gets that these are competent adults who can, actually, take care of themselves without his help.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Mothering!Jack usually goes hand in hand with Childish!Daniel, doesn't he?

The problem with that Jack in mother-hen mode is that it has a little bit of canon to back it up and it makes a lot of sense in that it's Jack job as CO to make sure his team is at its best. But as you say, the authors who overemphasize the mother henning also tend to underemphasize Sam's and Daniel's and even Teal'c's status as competent, capable adults.

I focus mostly on Daniel because it's what I know best. :) I do touch on the others occasionally, especially in next week's topic, which will finally be about alcohol. Moonshayde (I don't know how to make LJ links in comments, argh!) seems to be considering tackling non-Daniel topics, though.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

figgy, you need to type lj user=moonshayde but within the < and it's opposite.

I wish someone could remind me how to do that cool cross out thing in this format though.

Note to self: get on moonshayde to do that canon/fanon thing. ;-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the tip! That will come in handy. :)

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Cross-out thing is [strike] and [/strike] before and after the crossed out text, except with the pointy brackets. :-)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Whoo hoo! Thanks. I'll try to sear it in my brain this time. Now off to read some fic do some work. ;-)

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

yes, thanks for doing this. the statistics are very enlightening.

and i haven't forgotten my FIAD debate from last time. RL is eating my brain, but i'm here.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

RL is eating my brain

Zombie RL! Aaaahh!

The statistics kinda surprised me, actually. I assumed, when I started, that Daniel would be within the same ballpark as the others, but still slightly ahead. To discover that Jack was whumped more than anyone else was rather startling!

Of course, that doesn't touch upon off-world injuries. Maybe I'll do those someday, as a comparison. Someday. :)

[maychorian.livejournal.com]

Love this entry as much the others! I wasn't really surprised to find that the human members were pretty close in number of infirmary visits, though--I noticed through watching the episodes that Jack seemed to get hurt even more than Daniel, and Sam certainly wasn't immune. I'm also not surprised that fanon is the way it is. Daniel's the favorite, and we whump our babies, because we like to cuddle them afterward.

Of course, I'm coming from Star Wars, where Obi-torture has been and continues to be quite, quite big. Obi-Wan as a Padawan, mind you, with his big comforting master, Qui-Gon, to provide the cuddles afterward. Obi is the cutest, so he gets tortured ALL THE TIME. There's even less evidence in SW canon for this--Obi-Wan gets injured about twice in the Jedi Apprentice books, and not at all in the movies. Until he dies. :( He does get captured by the enemy quite a bit though. (Yay!)

I don't really have a problem with it, naturally. I write and read and love it all. I do agree that writers shouldn't go OTT, though. I get very frustrated with some of it, particularly the bad characterization, both here and in Obi-torture.

Thanks for writing, and please keep it up!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Glad you're enjoying these!

Oh, sure, the reasoning beyond Daniel-whumping is all too plain. It's just not - y'know - canon.

Which segues quite nicely into my not-so-subtle suggestion regarding the prequels and canon in SW, so maybe I'll just stop there. ;) It's your fandom t enjoy, after all!

[maychorian.livejournal.com]

Not quite sure what you're referring to there--perhaps that the prequels completely screwed up the SW canon? Oh, there can be no doubt of that. I never felt any desire to write fanfic for the original trilogy, because those movies were good on their own. But the PT introduced a whole slew of problems that pretty much demanded fanfic to fix them . . .

But anyway. Weren't we talking about Stargate?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Weren't we talking about Stargate?

Why yes, yes we were... Hey! Love your icon! :)

[maychorian.livejournal.com]

Heehee, thank you! It's by nomadicwriter. I've snagged bunches of icons from her.

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

Well, some of the letters didn't copy as well as I had hoped, but you're welcome to it if you want it:

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

::hugs you to pieces::

So priceless!

Thank you, thank you!

::rushes off to do some editing::

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Hee! Like maychorian, I've always noticed the amount of jack whumpage on the show, which I always chalked up to RDA wanting episodes off, and arranging to be "stuck in the infirmary" rather than on adventures with the team. The other canon whumpee, of course, is Siler. :-D

That's a rather transparent excuse to avoid Seasons 9 and 10, which I don't really know well enough for the purpose – and, quite frankly, am uninterested in watching all over again for research.

Didn't you know? When your doctor gets killed, and then your replacement doctor gets pregnant, your base isn't allowed to have injured personnel anymore. ;-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Poor Siler. :)

As I've mentioned in the past, I know that a lot of decisions on the show were based on actors' availability, or the limitations of camera angles, and so on and so forth. But I don't like to consider canon that way. I love them all too much. So when I muse about the show, I ignore the fourth wall and concentrate solely on the characters themselves, trying to make sense out of what we see in the context of it being reality.

The problem with Jack whumping vs. Daniel whumping is, of course, the hurt/comfort thing. Sam can comfort Daniel, but she can't comfort Jack, unless you veer into S/J, which for me is yuk. And Jack is too busy being the tough Black Ops Colonel (tm) to be truly comfort-able. Daniel, OTOH, fits the bill - sometimes a little too nicely! :)

Didn't you know? When your doctor gets killed, and then your replacement doctor gets pregnant, your base isn't allowed to have injured personnel anymore. ;-)

Hee! That would explain why we've seen very little infirmary scenes this past year, huh? Bring back Doc Warner! Or Carmichael! Or hey, throw up another Ripple Effect and strand Janet here!

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

It's also easy to say that Jack is the leader of the team and protective of his kids, so he's likely to be in the line of fire. :-)

And very, very yummy h/c comes out of the fanon trope of Daniel takes injured!Jack home and comforts him behind closed doors! Of course injured!Jack is loud, complain-y and difficult, so Daniel's patience with him is the proof of his intimate understanding of his soon-to-be lover. Oh, yes... good times. :-) (Jeez, come to thnk of it, I've written two injured!Jack stories and no injured!Daniels. Heh! *pets my little whumpee*)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

It's also easy to say that Jack is the leader of the team and protective of his kids, so he's likely to be in the line of fire. :-)

Well, yeah. One of my favorite interpretations of Jack's Goa'uld-baiting - and this is fanon, I know, but it's one that I really like! - is that he's being loud and annoying to distract the bad guys' attention from his "kids." (You'd think the guy would notice that one "kid" has eighty-odd years on him.)

As for the rest... Well. Er. I'm a gen girl. You might have noticed. :)

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

I love that trope, too! It's not like it's out of the realm of possibility. Though one really interesting scene was when Hathor was threatening Daniel, Sam and Jack with snaking, and they were all perfectly quiet and really uncomfortable. Because they jump in front of staff blasts for each other, but Ew. No one wanted to speak up and say, "Put it in me," to spare the others, but no one wanted to see it go in the others, either. It was just a "we need a miracle" moment. (Which they got, thanks to the Tok'ra.)

(And I love that no one ever thinks about how many years Teal'c has on them. Cracks me up! I've only used it once in fic, though. Teal'c seems to put up with Jack's mother-henning, so...)

Ack! Sorry! *wets thumb and tries to wipe of the "L" word* Um, just pretend that says "bestest friend" -- it works in those fics, too. :-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I love that interpretation of that scene! Because it drives me crazy that Daniel just stands there and stares. But suggesting that he'd happily die for Jack, but not get Goa'ulded... Oh yeah. I like that.

Which they got, thanks to the Tok'ra.

That's one of the things I disliked most about the shift in storylines in S4 - the Tok'ra went from being good allies, albeit a little condescending, to "allies" that were more interested in pursuing their own goals at the Tau'ri's expense. I really missed the dynamic of the Tok'ra in seasons two and three - when they brought us the Reetou-detectors, and got crucial intel to the SGC to save SG-1 in Into the Fire, and were actually useful.

Maybe I should just say "before Anise" and leave it at that. :p

Um, just pretend that says "bestest friend" -- it works in those fics, too. :-)

LOL! Except we debunked that one, too. ;)

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Anise was just... *shudders* Ew. There were always factions amongst the Tok'ra, but they did get less and less helpful. And I don't blame the Free Jaffa for distrusting them. I hate that they've disappeared cmpletely, though. I think the last mention of them was some intel they passed along about a black hole in Prototype.

LOL! Except we debunked that one, too. ;)

I know -- that's why I said fanon trope! It's one I happen to like, though and it makes sense. Having some mobility issues halfway through recovery would make one too well to tie up an infirmary bed, but a little too handicapped to function alone at home. Jack has had Daniel in his home before, and they don't have the "appearance of impropriety" issues that Jack and Sam would. One helping out the other at home during recovery is not a huge stretch, and is a lovely addition to their bond.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. It's a fanon trope that I love, too. It makes sense, it's reasonable, it fits what we know... I just wish it wasn't quite as overused.

Poor Sam, being the only military subordinate on a team of truly unique individuals. One more reason to love her, I'd say!

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

paian wrote a lovely description of Sam's POV on the 2-2's and 3-1's that make up the team. I won't make you wade through the slash to get to it -- it's:

There'd always been an intensity to their friendship that neither she nor Teal'c had ever achieved, but it was subsumed into the team gestalt. O'Neill and Jackson had been there from the beginning, and she and Teal'c had come along later. But she and O'Neill were Air Force, she and Daniel were scientists, Teal'c and O'Neill were warriors. Teal'c and Daniel had a spiritual connection and a shared sense of being outsiders; they were the experts on extraterrestrial cultures and the Goa'uld. Everything had balanced. They were men and she was a woman. Daniel was a civilian and the rest of them were career military. They were human and Teal'c was Jaffa. They were the specialists and O'Neill was the commander.

It's a wonderful mix!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oooh, lovely. Thanks for sharing that.

As I said - utterly unique. Infuriating so, to poor George, I should think.

Teamy goodness. Nothin' like it. :)

[cyren-2132.livejournal.com]

Though not exactly sick/hurt!Daniel-related, I just thought of more canon examples of waiting by the bedside: Threshold. When Teal'c's all brainwashed and juniorless everyone hangs out until they assign actual shifts for watching Teal'c. But wait...didn't Bra'tac say something about hanging around and reminding him of his life...I don't know. Maybe it's not the best example, after all.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

No, it surely qualifies, especially as they had to assign shifts to make sure it wasn't all team, all the time! As does everyone hanging around Jack's bedside when he wakes up after they disconnect the black hole in A Matter of Time. It's just that I stuck to Daniel-examples for that section, that's all. :)

The Girl?

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

I'll quibble with one thing: "Daniel did, technically, serve as 'the girl' for the first years of SG-1; he had the least military training and, by virtue of his status as speaker for the group and explorer of the unknown, the greatest opportunities to get into trouble."

I think it's also "Fandon" that Daniel gets the team into trouble more than anyone else. Jack's the one who eats the cake and gets old too fast--he's also the one who gets himself zapped and copied by a blue crystal. Teal'c gets the team into trouble by mentioning the Nox world, and by not mentioning his family right off, and he ends up in Cor-Ai. And Carter screws up with her ex--totally goes against orders on that one.

And that's just Season 1.

Season 2 I think you could argue equal trouble for all of 'em, but none of it really is the team's fault. It's stuff happening to them--Carter gets Jolinar, Teal'c has to save his family and gets a bug on his back, Jack gets an arrow through him, and...okay, well, maybe Daniel shouldn't have put his neck out for Shyla, but that's just one time.

So the whole idea of Daniel getting into more trouble than anyone else--I don't think that flies any more than Daniel gets hurt more.

What does happen is that when it gets into trouble it's really spectacular. Nem convinces everyone Daniel's dead. Shyla screws up Daneil's brain and body chemistry--and he so goes nuts. He's just about killed on Hadante. And he's the one who steps through to an alternate universe, thereby changing what we know about physics (he'd touched stuff all over the galaxy for a year, and then that one time it goes bad....)

I think it seems like Daniel's always getting into all the bad stuff because he is always talking--and he's alwasy getting into the middle of all the stuff the others get into, too.

And the stuff that hits Daniel, too, always seems to be really, really bad. And always seems to hit him hard. Maybe because he isn't military.

Carter's always trying not to be the girl and cry--she's actually been shown trying to muscle through bad things more than anyone. She works hard to cope, and be an officer first and a person second. (If someone's going to say I'm fine and not be fine, I'd put my money on her.)

The worse Jack is hurt, the more he yells--that's been shown repeatedly. If Jack stops yelling and he's hurt, he's probably going to shoot someone.

Teal'c gets hurt, and just tells the truth about it. And, because of junior, goes right on. (This actually led to the story of how he deals with loosing that.)

But Daniel has all these shadings.

We have seen Daniel say he's fine when he's not (Legacy, Need, The Light), so what that means is if he does say "I'm fine" and he's been around alien technology, everyone should worry. A lot. That could be where fandom picked up the idea that this is a habit of Daniel's.

But you also get Daniel saying he's fine--with total sarcasm (as in that was a stupid question to ask...as in that 'it's just a deep and bleeding gash' quip from Into the Fire, and the 'I think I'm getting used to that thing' quip about being ribboned, getting his brain fried in The Curse.) So maybe some folk don't get Daniel's brand of telling someone 'why did you just ask me that dumb thing?'

And we've seen him not saying anything, when he's really hurting (The Light where he's just sitting there, head down, after he flatlined, and in One False Step, where Jack asks if he'll be okay and Daniel just shoots over a look of utter misery--which makes you wonder about Meridian, where Daniel never once complained about the pain).

As to the 'cradled in the arms' -- totally with you. Heck, the guys don't even try to carry Carter like that. And, yes, Teal'c is strong, but I don't buy him trying to carry anyone like that. For one thing, it means both your hands are occupied and so that leaves you defenseless, and as we saw with The Touched, Teal'c doesn't do that. Ever.

Re: The Girl?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I didn't say he gets into the most trouble, though. I said he had the most opportunities to do so, for much the same reasons that you give. But yes, his plunges into danger do seem to be rather spectacular, don't they? :)

I actually plan to touch upon the "I'm fine" thingy in a future post, particularly the quote from Into the Fire. Truthfully, though? All of them tend to downplay their pain. Although with Jack, it's simple - as long as he's complaining (loudly), he's mostly okay. ;) And yes, I really loved the shades of Orpheus. It was a lot more perceptive than we usually get from TPTB.

Nice point on the "carrying someone in your arms means you can't defend yourself" aspect. That's something Teal'c would never, ever risk.

So glad you've wandered over here to join these discussions! :)

[kuonji14.livejournal.com]

Random comment: I wonder if the writers were influenced by the fans when they gave Jonas a fancier who's a nurse? :)

These are *great*, thanks for doing them!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

It's always possible. :) I tend to think of S7 as being the point where the writers started becoming influenced by fanon, but I don't know S6 well enough; you might be right about that.

Glad you're enjoying these! I hope to have a new one posted before the end of the week.