Canon vs. Fanon, part 17: A Jack O'Neill Edition, part 2

[fignewton]

Welcome to another edition of Canon vs. Fanon! It's been five months since the last one, and there are a lot of newcomers on my flist. I hope you'll pull up your keyboard and join the discussion - opinions of all kinds are welcome. If you're unfamiliar with this meta series, you can follow the tags, or use the direct links at the LJ Index.

Most of the Canon vs. Fanon posts are Daniel or team-centric. This one, though, is our second Jack O'Neill edition. In the past, we've discussed trees, 2IC status, and practical jokes. We're covering several more topics this time, and I'm still not finished with my Jack list of fanon tropes, so we might get the chance for a third Jack O'Neill edition in the future.

Recap: Canon is anything shown onscreen in Stargate: The Movie or Stargate SG-1; show supersedes movie if there are contradictions. (Abydos is one of the closest Stargates to Earth, not located in another galaxy.) Fanon is defined as popular concepts that occur regularly in fanfic, but have little or no actual canon basis to defend them.

The purpose of this series is not to mock or denigrate fanfic writers who use fanon, but to point out which common tropes are based on fanon instead of canon. As always, pointers to what I've missed, and discussions and/or disagreements with my analyses, are welcome in the comments.

Jack wanders into Daniel's office (or Sam's lab) when he's bored, and drives him or her crazy until they somehow convince him to go away.

There are two versions of this fanon trope: one in which Jack is genuinely bored and seeks distraction, and one in which Jack is deliberately sidetracking his resident scientists so they can get a badly needed break.

There is certainly plenty of canon evidence that when Jack is in someone else's domain, he tends to play with whatever he finds lying around - IV bags, magnifying glasses, doohickeys, and so on. But we never see him coming to Sam or Daniel's offices without any purpose. That purpose may be serious (stop watching the videos, Daniel, and come get tested by Frasier) or frivolous (want to go fishing, Carter, instead of spending vacation in your lab?), but it's never just because Jack doesn't have anything better to do with his time, or because he thinks they'll be able to work more smoothly after he gives them an unwanted break. In nearly every case, Jack is performing his duties as the leader of SG-1: checking up on his people.

Here's a breakdown of Jack's visits to Sam and Daniel, excluding times (like Seth, for example) in which Jack is already present when we enter the scene:

Torment of Tantalus: Jack finds Daniel in the briefing room, watching videotapes of the efforts to open the Stargate in the 40s. Jack is there to herd Daniel off to the infirmary, where they're scheduled to undergo testing.

Message in a Bottle. Jack enters the lab to check on Sam and Daniel, who have stayed up overnight with their latest plaything, and remind them of their duties as members of SG-1.

One False Step. Jack comes into Daniel's office to check on him after they've returned from the planet. Cue another temper tantrum, another visit to Janet, and the realization that the video must contain something to trigger the reaction.

Learning Curve. Jack checks up on Sam and Merrin and finds Sam asleep, with Merrin balancing precariously on a chair as she tries to find more paper for her naquadah reactor sketches.

Forever in a Day. Included for the sake of completion, since it never actually happened. Jack comes to Daniel's office to try and talk him out of quitting.

Nemesis. With Daniel uninterested in fishing immediately after an appendectomy, Jack visits Sam's office to try and convince her to join him instead. Sam's idea of a vacation, however, is performing a "detailed analysis of the decay rate of naquadah."

Small Victories. Back on Earth, Sam goes straight back to her lab (after a shower!) and studies a few Replicator blocks. This is probably the closest we get to Jack simply coming into Sam's lab with no purpose - although he does tell her he's leaving on vacation (without inviting her along this time).

Upgrades. This is the one and only time Jack wanders into Daniel's for no apparent purpose other than to be irritating. Poor Daniel is frustrated that he can't speed-read like Jack yet. Jack is mostly interested in snacks. Please note, however, that Jack is under the armband's influence by this point - he's already acting out of character.

Window of Opportunity. Jack comes striding into Daniel's office to save him from being knocked down (again and again and again...), and to demand that he translate the inscriptions on the planet.

Absolute Power. Like FIAD, included for the sake of completion, since it never happened. Jack comes to Daniel's office to demand an explanation for his erratic behavior. Daniel fantasizes about blasting Jack with a ribbon device.

The Light. Late at night, Jack comes to the lab to check on Daniel, and discovers him falling apart. The following morning, he's barely in time to keep Daniel from jumping off his balcony.

48 Hours. Jack comes to Sam's lab after he's released from the infirmary to hear her explanation of what happened to Teal'c.

Redemption, part 1. Jack visits Sam's lab to offer her encouragement in her ability to find a solution to the Gate crisis.

Evolution, part 2. Jack comes into Sam's lab to tell her that he's going after Daniel and that he won't be part of the mission to Tartarus.

Lockdown. Jack comes to Sam's lab to talk to all of SG-.75, particularly about the Russians' desire to put one of their people on SG-1.

Affinity. Jack comes to Sam's lab to find out what's been bothering her for the last several days. She tells him about Pete's proposal.

Full Alert. Jack, together with Chekov, come to see if Sam has discovered any clues to the Goa'uld infiltration in Russia. She has.

(It's interesting to see Jack's visits broken down like this, because after S4, he apparently never drops by Daniel's office again. If I've missed any such visits, either to Daniel's office or Sam's lab, please point it out in the comments.)

ETA: Thank you, scrollgirl, for pointing out Jack's visit to Daniel in Origin in S9. Jack drops into Daniel's office to check on him after he's nearly died again for a few minutes of quiet banter and an invitation to lunch.

So where does that leave us? In nearly every episode in which Jack comes to Sam or Daniel's offices, there is an actual purpose to that visit. There is never any suggestion that Jack is deliberately distracting Sam or Daniel to give them a badly needed break, and we don't see Jack annoying them out of boredom, either. The only episode that comes close is Small Victories, when Jack's visit to Sam's lab serves little purpose other than to tell her that he's leaving. The one incident that actually fits the fanon trope is Upgrades - and while Jack was hilariously irritating, he was also not quite in his right mind, and that can't really be used as canonical proof for regular behavior.

Conclusion: there is no real canon basis for the fanon trope of Jack annoying Sam and Daniel while they are working in their labs or offices.

Jack is an obsessed hockey fan.

We have already debunked the common fanon theme of Jack dragging Daniel home to drink beer and watch the game. But it's interesting to look at the realities of canon and discover that Jack barely talks about hockey at all. He does mention other sports, though, so it might be better to classify Jack as a sports fan, not specifically a hockey fan.

Let's take a look at all Jack sports references... excluding fishing, of course. :)

Cold Lazarus. When the Unity impersonating Jack picks up a baseball in Charlie's old room, he experiences a memory of Jack playing baseball with Charlie.

Later, when SG-1 is about to leave the SGC to track down "Jack" in the hospital, Hammond hands Teal'c a baseball cap, inscribed with the word "Chicago," to hide his tattoo. Teal'c examines it carefully, then announces, "Chicago. The Windy City. Home of the Blackhawks, the Bulls and the White Sox."

"Don't forget the Cubs," Jack tells him.

So, Teal'c references Chicago's hockey team, basketball team, and one baseball team, which plays in the American League. Jack chimes in with the Cubs, who play baseball in the National League. Teal'c's knowledge of Chicago trivia has two possible sources: the little television in his room, or - and I personally think it more likely - Jack himself.

Fire and Water. Jack owns a hockey stick and hockey net, and tries to work off steam with a little street hockey. He ends up smashing Hammond's car window.

The Gamekeeper. "Kawalsky" asks Jack, "Colonel, who are you gonna get to play street hockey with who can kick your butt the way I can?"

Family. Jack gives Ry'ac a baseball glove and a baseball, with the promise that he'll come to the Land of Light and teach Ry'ac how to play.

The Fifth Race. Jack boxes with Teal'c for the first time.

The Devil You Know. In Jack's flashback from the Blood of Sokar, he tries to coax Charlie into playing catch with him.

100 Days. Jack describes curling to Laira: "Curling's big where my grandfather's from in Northern Minnesota. You throw a big, round, kind of slab of rock down this slab of ice and just sweep..." He stops short at her expression, and learns that Laira heard voices on the radio.

Upgrades. Jack and Teal'c are boxing again. This time, thanks to the Atenik armband, Jack manages to knock Teal'c out.

Window of Opportunity. Jack uses the time loops to teach Teal'c how to golf... through the active Stargate.

The Light. As Sam prepares to go through the Gate to meet Daniel, Jack hands Barber a fifty, telling him to give it to Daniel because he'd lost a "sports related" bet with him. Sam asks for details.

"Curling," Jack answers.

Sam, incredulous, says, "Daniel bet on curling?"

"Oh, yes," Jack says. "His team won the big Bonspiel."

Sam looks amused, and tells him, "Okay. You don't want to tell me what the bet is. That's fine."

There are a few ways to read this exchange. Sam might be astonished that Daniel is betting with Jack on sports, or Sam might be skeptical that Daniel is betting about curling, or Sam might not believe that Daniel or Jack would be interested in curling at all. This latter option seems unlikely, seems curling is mentioned three times on the show.

Threshold. In the teaser, when they are trying to determine if MacKenzie's sessions with Teal'c have worked, Jack exchanges a few bantering lines with him:

Teal'c says, "You appear to be well."

"Well, forget appearances," Jack says dismissively. "The back's gone, the knee's shot. Forget curling. You?"

The Other Guys. Jack chats idly with Teal'c, asking him who he fancies for the Stanley Cup. Teal'c has to prompted: "Hockey? Remember, with the ice and skating? We went to a game last year." Once Jack has reminded him, however, Teal'c holds up his end of the conversation, declaring that he believes that "the Canucks of Vancouver are superior warriors."

Moebius. Jack leaves a message to "himself" in the future: "College football is played on Saturdays, pro on Sundays."

The Real World. Included for the sake of completion. This SGA episode has Elizbeth Weir attacked by nanites (if I understand the transcript correctly) that have her dreaming that her experiences on Atlantis are just a psychotic hallucination. She has several conversations with General Jack O'Neill in the course of her dreams, including this exchange:

"You've got to work yourself back into playing shape. Spend a little time doing some short shifts before you jump up to the first line."

Elizabeth shrugs and says apologetically, "I'm sorry. I don't know a thing about football."

Jack says to himself, "Nor hockey, apparently."

Keep in mind that this didn't actually happen; it's more an indication of how Weir sees Jack than Jack's actual characterization.

So, where does this leave us? We have two references to street hockey; two scenes with boxing; one reference to a trip to watch a hockey game; three references to curling; one reference to basketball; one golfing incident (complete with golfing outfit, and it's hard to imagine that Jack had time to go out and buy it during the loop); and several references to baseball, mostly in terms of playing with children. The overall pattern suggests that Jack likes many different sports, not just hockey.

It's interesting to note that is is Teal'c, not Daniel, whom Jack seems most interested in educating about sports. But other than taking Teal'c to a hockey game some time in S5 (and there is no way to tell if it was just the two of them or a team night), and a fantasy Jack's usage of a hockey metaphor in SGA, all other hockey references are to street hockey - which means that Jack enjoys playing the game, not necessarily watching it.

Conclusion: While there is no canon proof that Jack tries to teach Daniel how to enjoy hockey, there is certainly evidence that Jack has taught Teal'c about hockey and other sports. However, there is no canon basis for Jack's fanon obsession with hockey above all else.

Jack is constantly blowing out his knee.

This one is a little more subtle. We have plenty of canonical proof that Jack has a problem with his knees. Actual knee damage, though, is a different matter entirely.

We first hear about Jack's knees in Need, when Pyrus' fake Jaffa demands that SG-1 kneel before Pyrus. Jack demurs, "Actually, I've got this cartilage problem. A little ACL thing..." WHAM goes the staff weapon to the back of the knees.

Prodigy. When Sam and Hailey come through the Stargate, Jack is there to meet them. Sam asks, "How are you?"

Jack tells her, "Ah, well, the back's acting up a little... the knees, you know..."

Threshold. As quoted earlier, when Teal'c compliments Jack that he is looking well, Jack demurs, "Well, forget appearances. The back's gone, the knee's shot."

Redemption, part 1. Here is the only canon incident in which we actually see Jack suffer a knee injury. After a mistranslation from Captain Hagman results in a clash with the natives, Jack has a "partially torn ligament in his knee."

Descent. After Jack and Sam nearly drown, Jonas asks them if they're all right.

"Ah, a little wet. A little chilly. Knee gets a little stiff in cold water, you know."

Full Circle. Daniel in the elevator summons all his patience and starts all over again: "Hey, Jack, long time no see. How're you doing? How are the knees, the back, everything...?"

"Oh, you know," Jack says in reply. "Kinda weather-contingent, actually."

Orpheus. A badly shaken Teal'c begs Jack's forgiveness for concealing what he perceives as his "weakness" on tretonin. Jack dismisses it, saying, "No. There's nothing to forgive. You're still twice as strong as I'll ever be, and you've got two good knees."

Heroes. Janet, looking through Jack's medical file, remarks that he has had "three knee operations." Considering the context of the scene, it's safe to assume that these all took place during his years at the SGC. However, there is no way to tell if these surgeries were elective or due to injury.

(Am I the only one a little disappointed that Kanan couldn't at least fix Jack's knees while he was busy hijacking his body?)

As I said at the beginning of this section, there's a subtle difference here. There is no question that it's solid canon that Jack has trouble with his knees. But we see one knee injury in the course of the entire show. Janet references three knee operations, true. But that doesn't explain the huge profusion of fanfics in which Jack's knee is twisted/wrenched/dislocated/swollen/whatever else the author chooses to inflict.

Conclusion: while it is canon that Jack has problems with his knees, frequent injuries are actually fanon.

As a bonus, I offer two fanon tropes that have no canon basis whatsoever:

Jack teases Daniel by referring to artifacts as "rocks."

"Okay, Daniel, you go study your rocks..."

"Artifacts, Jack!"

"Whatever."

Exchanges like this are found in hundreds of fics. In terms of characterization, it certainly rings true. But if a canon reference exists, I have not yet been able to find it.

Anyone...?

Conclusion: There is no canon basis for the frequent fanon assertion that Jack drives Daniel crazy by referring to artifacts as "rocks."

Jack offers friendship/comfort/reassurance by placing his hand at the back of Daniel's neck.

Never. Happens.

Ever.

Please, someone, give me a citation for this. I will write you fic.

More on this in the personal opinion section, but for now...

Conclusion: There is no canon basis for the fanon trope of Jack resting his hand on the back of Daniel's neck.

My personal fanon opinion is a bit long-winded, so let's take it in sections.

The first fanon claim - that Jack wanders around annoying his teammates out of sheer boredom - seems to fall into the same fanon category as the frequent and equally false assertion that Jack likes to play practical jokes at the SGC. It's funny, it seems to suit his personality, and it allows for team interaction, so why not? I would agree with that, too - except it does diminish Jack to reduce him to caricature when it's carried too far. Like many fanon tropes, this one is fine... as long as it's used sparingly, with the recognition that it's complete fanon.

Jack's fondness for hockey and his knees are more a question of degree than authenticity. We do have canon proof that Jack is a hockey fan, and that he has trouble with his knees. But the sheer frequency in fanon is absurb in comparison to the reality of canon. There's nothing wrong with using these concepts at all - I've personally used them myself :) - but authors should recognize that they're minor canon points.

I would also like to point out that both of these fanon aspects actually have a very solid basis - only that canonical basis is with Richard Dean Anderson, not Jack O'Neill! RDA is the co-founder of the Celebrity All-Star Hockey Team, and is unquestionably a huge hockey fan. He has also undergone multiple knee surgeries. I've seen this kind of transference before, in my old Lois and Clark fandom, where fanfic writers would have Lois using cucumber oil because Teri Hatcher does, or assert that Clark's favorite movie is The Princess Bride, because Dean Cain has said that it's his favorite movie. This kind of fanon has its own charms, and it certainly doesn't hurt... as long as a writer isn't tricked by the huge amounts of fanfic into thinking that it's actually canon!

Now, our two fanon tropes that have no canonical basis: Artifacts=rocks, and Jack placing his hand on the back of Daniel's neck.

The first one, like Jack-the-joker and Jack-the-bored-irritant, is relatively benign. It is exactly the kind of thing we would expect Jack to do. I imagine that a popular author inserted it in a story, and readers seized upon it and incorporated it into their own fics. After a while, the origin is forgotten, and the sheer frequency makes readers assume that it must be based on canon, even if they can't find the source.

Is it wrong to have Jack calling Daniel's artifacts "rocks"? Of course not. But it should be recognized as fanon.

It's our last bit of fanon, though, that genuinely drives me insane. I've seen it across a huge spectrum of authors. I've seen it so often, in fact, that I have searched extensively for a canonical incident. The Serpent's Lair? The Spacemonkey Hug ™ is just that - a hug. Need? Nope, rubbing his back. The Light, on the balcony? Not there either. Enemy Mine? Hand on the shoulder when Jack tells Daniel to go to his "happy place" aka artifacts (not rocks).

If there is even a single canon scene in which Jack rests his hand on the back of Daniel's neck, please comment and point it out. Seriously. I will write you fic as a thank-you present. :)

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be the way that I feel about it. What do you think?"

ETA: LJ's e-mail notifications don't seem to be working at the moment. If I miss your comment, or delay replying, please don't take it personally. :)

Comments

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

You forgot Jack's broken leg in "Solitudes" which may or may not have related to his knees. Plus the fact this wasn't his first broken bone. He had nine breaks, if you count skull fractures, beforehand from a parachuting mishap in Iran/Iraq area.

I know you weren't counting when Jack's already *in* an office, but weren't they in Daniel's when Jack got the job in "New Order Part 2" (Since Daniel's office and Sam's lab is the SAME set redressed, I tend to confuse them myself). Just fodder for the "he doesn't visit Daniel anymore."

The back of the head thing. He does that more for Teal'c than Sam or Daniel, although he does touch them, it's not quite the same way. With Daniel, it's more a "hand on either side of head thing, a la Spacemonkey or hugs. (hey, maybe that's why Jack/Teal'c is the one interteam ship I can squint to see best if I try).

Also, re the sports:
Keep in mind that this didn't actually happen; it's more an indication of how Weir sees Jack than Jack's actual characterization

I almost wonder if Weir had some kind of half-forgotten conversation with Jack about this before, because she clearly doesn't know her sports metaphors, so how does she get it right for her mental-Jack but wrong for herself? It's not like the Replicator was doing a lot of Stanley Cup watching on Asuras (how do you even *know* about this ep?)

And the "curling" incident Daniel and Jack supposedly bet on, was really on whether Sam was going to join Daniel on the Light planet. Doesn't change your conclusion, just saying. ;-)

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

she clearly doesn't know her sports metaphors, so how does she get it right for her mental-Jack but wrong for herself?

I was wondering that! I was trying to come up with a decent handwave, and failing.

Maybe the Replicators are sports fans...

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I have no medical knowledge whatsoever, but would broken bones actually affect the kneecap?

I didn't mean to imply that Jack wasn't friends with Daniel any longer. :) My clearest memory in later seasons of Jack in Daniel's office is Moebius, where Jack is leaning on the doorframe and watching all the stuff from Catherine getting dumped in the room. It just seems that he's not checking up on Daniel in the later seasons.

Love love love the way he wordlessly puts his hand on Teal'c's face in Lost City, and that says it all. Could you give me a few examples of where Jack puts his hand on the back of Sam's or Teal'c's necks? And why have I never seen that in a fic?

Neat speculation re Weir. Er, you do know I didn't see the ep, right? I just happily caught it when I was doing a Google search for Stargate transcripts with hockey. :)

And heh, yes - the bet was on whether or not Sam would go. I didn't include that point because it wasn't pertinent, but I love the canon proof that Jack and Daniel made bets with each other about their teammates. ("Twenty bucks I can swipe a spoonful of Teal'c's ice cream and stay conscious." "Fifty and you're on." Hee!)

[ultranos-fic.livejournal.com]

The way I always understood Jack's knee problems and the trope of him "always blowing out his knee" is that once you screw up your knee once, it's relatively easy to do so again, even after physical therapy. I'm mostly speaking from experience here, as I dislocated one of my knees five years ago, underwent PT, and then 1.5 years ago nearly tore the ACL in an incident that would never have even come close to that had I not had the previous injury.

Considering how damn active Jack is, it IS one thing he probably has to be aware of. Once you injure the joint, it's just that much less resilient. I'm not saying he's mangling them every other week, but I can see a logical reason behind the trope.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

::nods:: Dislocations, too - if it happens once, it's more likely it can happen again.

All that is an excellent explanation for why Jack tends to harp on his knees. But it doesn't excuse the "mangling," as you so aptly put it... :)

[aelfgyfu_mead]

Yes indeedy! Once you mess up a knee, it's never the same, as my Brilliant Husband could tell you at great length, but you apparently don't need to hear.

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

Jack offers friendship/comfort/reassurance by placing his hand at the back of Daniel's neck.

Never. Happens.

Ever.

Whilst I can't remember him doing that to Daniel, he does put his hand on the back of Vernon's neck in Sight Unseen, in a kind of friendly gesture. However, he's also specifically trying to touch Vernon's skin in order to pass on the bug antidote, so I guess it doesn't exactly count. And Jack is very inclined to touch people when he wants to comfort them, so although not canon, I don't think it's out of character.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

You are cruel to use a visual from S6 against me! :D

I agree that Jack is touchy-feely, yes. And I agree it's not OOC. But why oh why is it in so many fics when it never ever happened on the show?!

Erm. 'Scuse me. :)

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

I would also like to point out that both of these fanon aspects actually have a very solid basis - only that canonical basis is with Richard Dean Anderson, not Jack O'Neill!

And re. this - I think one of the... problems? that RDA creates is that he does tend to pull things from his real life over into his characters. He had MacGyver being very interested in hockey, and stuff like that. And there's Jack and all the Simpsons references. From what I see around, there's a general feeling that he brings his personal interests into his acting - and can get away with it because he's the star / exec producer.

Sometimes that's totally unfair on a) his acting, and b) the writers, though. :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree - RDA definitely put a lot of his own habits and foibles into how he played Jack. I didn't know that RDA is a Simpsons fan. How does he personally feel about Oz? :)

It makes the lines a little more blurry, but RDA still isn't Jack O'Neill, no matter what some crazed fangirls might think.

[suzannemarie.livejournal.com]

I always thought any references to curling were simply there because it's relative funny and obscure--given the only time there's any inkling of general interest in the population is when the Winter Olympics roll around. They get a twofer of nodding to the Minnesota-ness of O'Neill and having fun with something that's relatively offbeat.

I think the combination of O'Neill's glancing references to hockey, owning street hockey gear, that references to hockey were pulled out in the Gamekeeper's VR, and that O'Neill is from Minnesota, makes it a not-too-outrageous leap that he's a hockey fan. Though I do tend to agree that there's no show evidence to support that he's dragging teammembers--Daniel in particular--out to sporting events or otherwise sharing sports viewing with them.

..."three knee operations." Considering the context of the scene, it's safe to assume that these all took place during his years at the SGC. However, there is no way to tell if these surgeries were elective or due to injury.

Sadly, three surgeries could all be the result of one injury. As someone else mentioned, it really just takes one serious enough knee incident to lead to ongoing problems. There does seem to be at least a chronic issue with his knees, though.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Heh. I had to go look up curling, because I had no idea what it is. I do like the nod to Jack's Minnesotan roots!

I've never suggested that he isn't a hockey fan. My point is that he's a not a hockey fan to the exclusion of all else. Yet I can't think of a single fanfic (outside to references to rings of Jell-o, hee!) that has Jack interested in a sport other than hockey. Can you?

Sadly, three surgeries could all be the result of one injury.

An excellent point - and one that further bolsters the suggestion that Jack really shouldn't be suffering from constant knee injuries in fic, because it simply didn't happen that often on the show. Issues, yes - injuries, no.

[sg-betty.livejournal.com]

Oh, yea!! I can't wait to read this...

...And it was as awesome and useful as usual! Thanks, Fig.
(Hey, we won't have to wait 5 months for the next one, will we? ; )

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Hee! Hopefully not. :)

[a-loquita.livejournal.com]

Well, as you say, it is canon that Jack does bug them when they are working in general. Take the beginning of Forsaken when he's singing and just hanging around Sam. Moments like that I think get stretched into--well, if he's done it off-world and other places, why not in their lab sometimes? In the context of the show, they would never have a scene where there's no purpose to it all, where none of the characters talk about things to advance the plot. A scene about Jack coming into the lab to annoy them but with no other real purpose would end up on the cutting room floor. There's just not enough time for something like that.

The knees and the hockey are absolutely RDA seeping into Jack O'Neill. Two things have always bugged me about the fact that he mentions them being bad so often. One- if his knees were really bad, I would expect he would not be allowed to do field work and would not pass yearly physical fitness requirements that the military have. Two- when being held by Baal why didn't the sarcophagus take care of the problem for him? I always took these comments made by Jack as just his humor, making fun of himself, and almost trying to play up the "grumpy old man" image.

As for all the Chicago sports references? Makes me very gleeful!!! Anyone from here is *very* loyal to our sports teams. Like bad. And even in Minnesota or Colorado he can get the Cubs on TV through the WGN superstation.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oooh, another S6 reference! I'll check out the transcript, thank you. Your comments seem to suggest it was off-world? Excellent - that's another thing on my canon vs. fanon list! :)

Yes, you're right - we have very very few scenes that are there just for camaraderie. But a single scene in the sixth season getting stretched to Jack annoying them in their labs...? Unless you have some other incidents, of course!

if his knees were really bad, I would expect he would not be allowed to do field work and would not pass yearly physical fitness requirements that the military have

I completely agree with you on this one. I didn't realize how often Jack groused about his knees until I started tallying it here for the post. Maybe it is just the deprecating thing, as you suggest. And if Kanan didn't fix his knees, I agree that the sarcophagus ought to have helped a bit... but maybe that would have only been temporary, like Daniel's eyesight.

Yeah, I like the fierce loyalty to sports, too. It fits Jack very nicely. Just as long as we remember that it's not only hockey. :)

[magnavox-23.livejournal.com]

Jack sustained a knee injury in The Devil You Know when the guard shot him in the knee when they came to collect Sam and he stood in the way. (From what we can see, it appears to maybe graze his knee, or hit him in the side of the leg)

He also meets with the team in what is presumably Sam's lab in The Shroud, but again, with the purpose of figuring out whether or not to trust Daniel.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Is an outside wound the same as a knee injury, though? We usually think of "blowing his knee" in terms of dislocation or wrenching or something similar.

YES for that great scene in Shroud! I loved how utterly professional, yet connected, Sam and Jack were there.

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

hee hee. the reason I as a slasher love putting jack's hand on daniel's neck is the combination of hand porn with neck porn. like a peanut butter cup, two great things that go great together. and that's all i'll say about that.

you must be reading different fic than I do; i do not notice in fanon a proliferation of jack knee INJURIES. fanfic does follow through on the canon of jack having less-than-stellar knees, which makes sense if he has rushed various rehabs from an ACL injury followed by surgery (which is a big deal and from which one can recover completely or only partially, particularly if you have a demanding job that involves running). three knee surgeries might indicate continual problems, or actual injuries. in short, the fanfic i'm familiar with does not go overboard with this. but that's my experience.

also, it seems that in the fanfic i'm most familiar with, once again the emphasis is on jack being a SPORTS fan, not a hockey-only fan. But again: we read in parts of the fandom that only occasionally overlap, so there is that.

question: Do you think it's possible that at least some of Jack's curling references were intended as jokes? it is a very obscure sport, after all. tho very much part of his minnesota roots.

also, i do agree that there is a ton of fanon that i've seen about jack bugging sam or daniel for no apparent reason, out of boredom or out of a desire to avoid paperwork. thanks for the clarification there. part of this might be the difference between romance fic and gen fic, too -- those of us who are interested in jack romancing one of his team members would focus on how HE would need to come up with a pretext for going to see them in order to flirt or get his daily quota of UST. this would not be a plot point in a noromo gen story, of course. in other words, some of the fanon about jack distracting or bugging his team members serves a plot purpose in the romance stories that is kind of a necessity at times.

thanks as always for the wonderful thorough look.

i recently revisited destina's list of Daniel Fanon Debunking and it was wonderful, too.

*cheers*

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

This is all very interesting to me, because for the most part, I've found that Jack-Daniel interaction remains constant over the fandom spectrum. Sam characterization fluctuates wildly over the various shipping lanes, but Jack and Daniel? This is the first time anyone has suggested that the fanon I see in gen is different from the fanon elsewhere for them.

Very good point - the wandering into the office is often used to get the characters alone in a scene together, and that would tend to be more necessary in ship than gen fic. Of course, you want that privacy for advancement of friendship, too, which is why you find the fanon in gen fic as well. Some very nice thinky thoughts!

Destina's Fanon Debunking? Link, please?

[katie-m.livejournal.com]

There's a hair-ruffle at the end of the S3 premiere, the name of which I do not at this time remember, which may or may not involve neck contact.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Into the Fire!

I think he does a back slap...but you're right. In redial's chat of the ep, people noticed something else...goes to find out... There's a shoulder pat! (http://community.livejournal.com/redial_the_gate/48210.html#cutid1)

Hmm...

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

(http://s178.photobucket.com/albums/w245/pepper-f/Stargate%20-%20various/?action=view&current=SerpentsLair.jpg)

Does it count?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Spacemonkey, yeah! :D Oooh, warm and fuzzy feelings - but no, it doesn't count. :) It's a great hug, but no hand to the back of the neck. Still - great screencap!

[thraesja.livejournal.com]

Regarding curling: it certainly would be considered obscure from Sam or Daniel's POV. I agree that the bet in The Light was a joke intended to distract Sam from the actual bet about her. And she rightly calls them on it since it would be somewhat out of character for Daniel to give a crap about a 'bonspiel'. Unless, of course, he was just humouring Jack.

But keep in mind that the show was acted, written and shot mostly by Canadians in Canada. Canadian inside jokes and references abound (Kelowna/Langara anyone?). Since Canadians are likely the biggest curling fans in the world, I'd argue that Jack's fondness for curling is another inside reference to go with Teal'c's belief that the Canucks of Vancouver are superior warriors.

Amusingly, I can't curl because I have bad knees. Well, that and bad aim...

[aelfgyfu_mead]

Oh, yes! Someone in my field is at a university in Kelowna, and I giggle a little every time I see his affiliation listed somewhere.

[sela21k.livejournal.com]

WOW.

I have written college papers that haven't been as well thought out and presented and those were for a grade, not for fun.

Much respect.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you! Although to be fair, it's always easier to be more thorough when it's such a labor of love. :)

[night-spear1287.livejournal.com]

Wow. I completely didn't realize the rock=artifact thing was fanon. I even opened transcripts of a few episodes where it might have reared its head, but...huh. Good to know :)

As always, props for the huge time investment put into these!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, I've found myself doing that, too - "Maybe it happened here?" "Something in that S5 ep with the Russians?" But no! It's all fanon. Scary, isn't it? :)

Very glad you're enjoying these!

[aelfgyfu_mead]

I like to think I'm pretty up on canon, but I'd never realized the "rocks"/"artifacts" argument was purely fanon.

You rock, Fig!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Hee, yes - it's one of those things that are so pervasive, you have to actually stop and think, "No, wait - when did Jack say that?" :)

Thank you!

[iamrosalita.livejournal.com]

Here's the story on the whole rock and artifact thing (which I HATE, btw).

Like a lot of fanon, it started because someone (and I'd pay to know who) used it in a story. Someone else liked it so much, she used it in her story. And so on and so on until it became so ubiquitous that people have been known to ask what episode it came from.

It reminds me of the XF fanfic trope that Scully uses strawberry shampoo. It has no basis in canon and no one knows who started it.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, I definitely agree that's how it started. I have this vague idea it was Yum@ - I have no proof of that, mind you. Just a feeling. I came to this fandom too late to be able to say that with any kind of assurance.

I don't hate it, mind you. Kudos to the first author who thought of it, because it really is the kind of snark that goes along with "doohickeys." You can't blame her if half the fandom decided to take the phrase and run with it...

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Okay, I got lost in all the comment threads.

1) Offices. *shrugs* It makes some amount of sense that they socialize/see each other more than we see on tv but those are the scenes are aren't going to specifically advance the plot and won't get show in tight, 42 minute scripts. That said, yeah, he probably rarely does it exclusively to bug them. But he's definitely in Daniel's office post-descension (come to think of it, I think we *see* Daniel's office more the first 5 seasons + the Jonas year than we do the later seasons, or at least than we do in season 7 and 8). At the very least, at the end of New Order.

2) Jack reads to me as a kind of aimless jock - always reasonably athletic and good at sports and enjoys playing them but not into the type of school spirit thing tied in with high school and college sports but I think he does enjoy watching a good game. If you assume that he grew up in Minnesota, given what I know of that state, I expect he spent warm months playing baseball and cold months playing hockey (pick-up games of both mostly). Curling is probably mostly meant as a joke - makes sense with Minnesota - close to Canada and probably the US state where it's most popular, but I think he more makes fun of it as a hockey player than is actively into it. Baseball, well, it's kinda the American apple pie thing to pass on parent-child (I'd say father-son, but, heck for me it was softball from father to daughter so...) so it makes sense to me he associates it with children - it's a way for him to be parental. And he can be an obsessed hockey fan and still like other sports. Or maybe he like *playing* hockey and being a fan of baseball (no question that he's a cubs fan)

3) Knees. Is this really common. I mean, I see him complaining about them a lot, but I don't feel like him having knee injuries a lot (or generally seeing him injured more often than other characters). And, as others have said, knees are annoying things and really easy to make cranky and they're never the same again. Odds are he messed it up once and it's given him trouble on and off forever since - probably not bad enough to stop him, but enough for him to gripe (also, ever notice how Jack tends to complain about injuries loudly? Particularly when he can do so to annoy people - not when they're super serious or when there's other things to worry about....I feel like if it's a nagging thing he'd complain and if it was serious he wouldn't). And I feel like this came up the last Jack fanon - did you notice if it was almost always his right leg that was injured? I feel like he consistently messes up that leg.

And I probably said nothing new others hadn't already said.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I excluded any ep in which Jack is already in the office/lab, as opposed to entering it during the scene. So no, I wasn't implying that he and Daniel aren't friends any more - just that in later seasons, Jack doesn't get filmed walking into his office.

I pretty much agree with your Jack sports assessment, but the reference to curling in 100 Days does lead me to believe that while he might treat it as a joke, he follows the sport. Possibly despite himself. :)

Jack suffers knee injuries all the time in fic, yes. It gets annoying after a while. :) And I agree that Jack is a very very bad patient. One of the things on my list for future essays is that his complaining is inversely proportional to the seriousness of the injury. That's definitely a common factor in fic, and I'm going to have to do a little research to see if it's actually true. Oh, the humanity! ;)

Yes, we talked about Jack getting blasted in the leg, and his targeted eyebrow, last time. It's actually pretty canonical, so I didn't see much point in making an issue of it.

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

Jack offers friendship/comfort/reassurance by placing his hand at the back of Daniel's neck.

Never. Happens.

Ever.

Please, someone, give me a citation for this. I will write you fic

Actually, it does happen. In Need, that hug has Jack not just hutting put he has his hand on the back of Daniel's neck (pretty much pulling him into the hug).

The shoulder to hair ruffle at the end of "Into the Fire" could also almost pass for this, but not like the Need comforting.

That's about it -- but it does seem like if it happens (or is even suggested) in cannon, that's the place where the rest of us can take off and run like mad with it. As in how many moments did we not see on the screen. :)

Do I get my fic now?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Ah, Random, I will always write you fic if you ask for it. :) But Need is mentioned above, and it doesn't fit the trope, which is only the hand resting on the back of the neck, not as part of a hug.

I have no objection to Jack's friendly touches - those are unquestionably canon. (Spacemonkey, hair-ruffle, hug in Need, hand on the shoulder, etc.) It's that one specific gesture which shows up in fanfic all the time, despite never being a solitary gesture on the show, that drives me insane.

Fic prompt? :)

[netbyrd.livejournal.com]

Very cool and useful, as usual! I always key into the sports mentions for Jack in a fic, because I'm from Chicago and my mom's side of the family is all in MN, so I like to see things from both mentioned. I'm actually surprised I don't see more Lacrosse mentions in fanfic, because it's really popular with a lot of people in MN.


I think it's kind of interesting that we see so much of the Jack resting his hand on Daniel's neck trope in fanfic without canon corroboration, and yet I don't often see Jack ruffling Daniel's hair in fanfic (or only in cutie wootsie fanfic). Yet I can actually think of a few times that occurs in canon, and it's sprinkled in both early and later seasons.

It's weird how we pick up on stuff like that. My gut reaction would be to respond to the hand-on-neck thing as more 'them'in fic and the 'Jack ruffles Daniel's hair' as more akin to woobie!Daniel fic. But obviously, just going back to 'The Shroud' blows my instinct out of the water.

Nice job on these!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

That's an excllent point! We look at hair-ruffling as "Dannyboy" (or "woobie!Daniel," heh) territory, but it's actually very much canon - and, as you say, repeated in S10.

Was lacrosse ever mentioned on the show? I don't think so.

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

(It's interesting to see Jack's visits broken down like this, because after S4, he apparently never drops by Daniel's office again. If I've missed any such visits, either to Daniel's office or Sam's lab, please point it out in the comments.)

Huh. That *is* very interesting, broken down like that. Well, as much as I miss my Jack/Daniel, this kind of reinforces the whole "they're exes now" vibe of the last two seasons. Did want to mention, however, that Jack shows up in Daniel's office at the end of "Origin", after Daniel and Vala's little adventure in the Ori galaxy. Jack is visiting the SGC mostly to do a favour for Cam (or so Jack claims) but he drops by to say hi to Daniel and to get him to come get food with him.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, excellent catch with Origin! I'm not that familiar with S9-10 for some reason. ;) I'll edit to include - thank you!

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

Please note attached pic, Jack's hand is definitely in the neckish area as he attempts to subdue a warpath!Daniel. :::whistles innocently::::
I believe the accompanying line was 'Daniel, go to your happy place.'
http://www.gateworld.net/gallery/displayimage.php?album=147&pos=41

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yep, this moment is cited above in the main post:

"Enemy Mine? Hand on the shoulder when Jack tells Daniel to go to his "happy place" aka artifacts (not rocks)."

Sorry, Wonderland, no sale. :) This was actually the first ep I went and checked when I was actively searching for just one hand-on-the-neck scene.

Never. Ever. Happened.