Canon vs. Fanon, part 10: Pre-series Daniel

[fignewton]

Finally, the post so many of you have been nagging me about asking for: Pre-series Daniel!

Backstory is a crucial part of understanding and writing a character. When you consider some of the more iconic fictional characters, nearly all of them reference pivotal moments in the hero's childhood or past to help us understand the driving force behind the character's motivations and actions. Elessar Telcontar, for example, is on a quest to not only redeem his ancestor's mistake, but to prove himself worthy of Arwen in her father's eyes; Clark/Kal-El is the lone survivor of an entire planet, and will do anything in his power to protect his adopted world. (I could go on and on and on in this vein, and thus introduce you all to my favorite books and fandoms, but I think I'd best stop there.) There are very, very few heroes that have made their way into our collective consciousness without giving us at least some glimpse into the backstory.  Sherlock Holmes is one, although we see him through the more immediate filter of Watson's eyes, and we do know Watson's backstory.

How about our heroes from SG-1, then? The details of their backstories are mostly vague, but we do have some basic broad strokes – enough to comprehend their motivations. Jack O'Neill lost his son and was chosen for his suicidal tendencies to be the leader of a suicide mission; Samantha Carter is an Air Force brat who was driven to be better than the best by her need to prove to her father that she was just as good as a son; Teal'c lost his father to the caprices of the Goa'uld and, under Bra'tac's tutelage, determined the falsity of the Goa'uld's claims to divinity and longed to do something about it. (Actually, Teal'c's backstory is probably the most complete of the four.) And Daniel? His motivations are introduced to us from the moment we meet him: brilliant but controversial, Daniel accepted a job when he was practically out on the streets and walked through the Stargate in a driving determination to know that he was right.

So much for the broad strokes. But if we narrow the focus to Daniel, how much do we know about his life before he met Katherine, and how much of the common themes in fanon have any basis in that canon?

My usual brief recap of defining canon and fanon won't do here, so let's study that in a bit more detail first. The definition of fanon hasn't changed; I still use that term to refer to widely-accepted concepts that appear in fanfic, but do not have any real basis in canon. For the purpose of this specific topic, however, some might choose a wider spectrum for their canon.

First and foremost, despite coming last, is the series. Anything we discover about Daniel's background during the episodes of Stargate: SG-1 is definitive canon.

Next comes Stargate: The Movie. As always, the canon of Daniel's life and experiences in the movie is invalidated if the series later contradicts it; but if there is no such contradiction, than the events of the movie are considered canon.

Finally, there is a third source – or, I should say, two sources that fit into the third category – the novelization of the movie (I'll use the term "the book" from now on), and the official press release issued by MGM when the show first began. Both of these sources can be termed as apocryphal.

That's my own judgment, of course. Others might look at those sources as more canonical. I call them apocryphal for three reasons: one, they're much less well-known (the only source I can find for the press release, as directed by the ever gracious shutthef_up, is RDA's website, and many many fans have never bothered to read the book, either because they're not interested or they can't get hold of it); two, they're often contradicted by canon; and three, they're not the final product, so to speak. The book, in particular, is astonishingly different in some sections and details, particularly characterization and descriptions. I understand from moonshayde that the book was written from an early draft, which makes things a lot more understandable.

So where does that leave us, with regards to using the book and press release as a canonical source for Daniel's backstory? My personal opinion is that they're too apocryphal to use. But since my personal opinions don't belong in this section, I will suggest that while they shouldn't be considered true canon, they're useful as springboards for creating an original backstory of the author's choice. (The discussion on a previous thread on this topic gives a nice example of how some fanfic writers chose to use contradictory aspects of the book to create some pre-series history for Daniel.)

Here is the press release issued by MGM, way back when the show first began, as taken verbatim from RDA's website:

Dr. Jackson joined the SG-1 team on a voluntary basis to study the cultures of other planets. He holds a Ph.D. in Anthropology as well as a Ph.D. in Linguistics, and has prior experience with the culture of Abydos. He is an expert in ancient cultures and languages in addition to current ones; he speaks over 20 languages including ancient Egyptian. Originally he was contracted by the military to decipher a mysterious hieroglyphic cartouche. His subsequent translation of the cartouche allowed the Stargate to be opened for the first time. He married Sha're, an off-world human and native of Abydos, after he chose to stay behind on the planet following the first mission, and he became something of a deity to the people of Abydos. His humanistic, liberal approach is often in conflict with O'Neill's militaristic approach. Some see him as a soft, brainy, clumsy scientist who carries a wide-eyed enthusiasm with him through every mission.

Aside from the painfully obvious nature of this as being written by someone before the character was fully realized, there are plenty of things wrong with it. Daniel did not join the team to study the cultures of other planets; he joined it so he could search for Sha're, and it isn't until The Broca Divide that we see him pushing for the exploration of other cultures and learning more about Earth's past through them. Daniel translated the cartouche on the coverstone in his first two minutes on the project; it was his identification of the symbols as constellations, two weeks later, that allowed the Stargate to be opened. There has never been any suggestion that the people of Abydos looked upon Daniel as "something of a deity," although there was surely some hero-worship going on, as Daniel himself tells Jack on that first evening back from Abydos. And while Daniel did carry a "wide-eyed enthusiasm with him" during the first few seasons, "brainy" and "scientist" are legitimate labels for Daniel, but "soft" and "clumsy," despite fanon's frequent suggestions to the contrary, are not.

So much for the press release. For those of you unfamiliar with the book, I'm going to list a few of the more incredulous contradictions here:

Kawalsky, a lieutenant, is in charge of the Stargate Program under General West until Jack is called in. He was slated to lead the team, if there was one, though the Stargate. He's huge, physically intimidating, and deeply resentful of Jack, who has not only taken over the project, but is hugely irritating in the "need-to-know" department.

Katherine is the one who tossed out the question that torpedoed Daniel's lecture, rather than an anonymous voice from the crowd; the implication is that she did it deliberately. And instead of meeting him outside in a limo, she breaks into his apartment to talk to him. The picture she discusses with him is framed on his wall; when he walks into his apartment, he discovers her idly rifling through his things while she waits for him to get back from the liquor store, where he cadged a bottle from the owner to help him drown his sorrows after the disastrous presentation.

Daniel didn't get his inspiration from the guard's newspaper; he broke into Jack's office because he was frustrated from the constant refusal of West et al to give him the necessary information. He tore Jack's star map off the wall and actually used it in the presentation; it is implied, although not specified, that Jack and West actually knew that the constellations played a crucial part in figuring out the symbols.

Kasuf gives Sha'uri to Daniel because Daniel cannot take his eyes off her from the moment he sees her, to the point where Jack calls him on this on more than one occasion and tells him to stop staring at the pretty girl and get back to work.

Jack won't let Daniel taste the lizard-chicken because Daniel, at that time, is too valuable to risk, so Kawalsky eats it instead.

Ra loses his hand and wrist in the matter stream when Daniel and Sha'uri are ringed back down. He screams for his slaves to take him to the sarcophagus, but all the children flee to the rings and quite literally jump ship when Jack and Daniel activate the rings from below. This does have the advantage of saving Jack and Daniel from killing all those civilian children as collateral damage in the nuke.

Considering all this, how much can the book be taken as canon? Obviously, anything contradicted by the movie, or later by the show, has to be discarded. But what about extra details of Daniel's life that are not later contradicted? Should these be considered canon?

My personal opinion is that they should not. For the purposes of this discussion, however, I will reference them and allow my readers to draw their own conclusions as to their status as canon.

To be (hopefully) as clear as possible, information taken from the press release or the book will be in blue, with direct quotes in italics, and information from the movie will be in red. If this turns out to only make things worse, I'll edit the post accordingly.

Unlike most canon vs. fanon discussions, I want to start with the canonical facts and then analyze the common fanon themes to see if they have basis and/or merit. I also will detail exactly when we learn each bit of pre-series history. While I first discovered Stargate in the summer of 2005 and was thus presented with eight years of canon all at once, it's fascinating to consider how slowly real-time fans actually discovered much of Daniel's backstory.

Canon pre-series Daniel facts:

Birth. The book states that Daniel was just shy of thirty at the start of the movie, which would suggest a birthdate of 1966 or 1967. However, in the second season episode 1969, Daniel tells Jack that he was "about four and a half years old in 1969." Many of us like to snark about Daniel's puzzling concept of "half a year," considering that he was unquestionably born on July 8th and 1969 took place in August. To be fair, however, that piece of information was only gleaned in S3, during FIAD. So fans have to choose between 1964 and 1965 as Daniel's birth year; 1965 is more popular, but both choices are equally valid.

Then there's the question of where Daniel was born. I'll document the most popular choices below, but thanks to the brilliant aurora_novarum, we have confirmation that Daniel was, in fact, born in Olympia. Her full post is here, but I've reproduced a crop of the screencap here:

With Aurora's gracious permission, here are the stats, as she determined them:

ENLISTMENT RECORD NO: 00-404-226
ENLISTMENT RECORD: ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES
DEPARTMENT OF THE AIR FORCE

NAME: JACKSON, DANIEL DATE OF BIRTH: [ILLEGIBLE]
PLACE OF BIRTH: OLYMPIA, OR/GR (?)
SEX: MALE RACE: CAU
COLOR OF EYES: BLUE COLOR OF HAIR: BROWN
HEIGHT: 6'00"
WEIGHT: 175 LBS.

HOME ADDRESS: 4?00 [ILLEGIBLE STREET]
MARITAL STATUS: SINGLE

EDUCATION
HIGH SCHOOL: GRADUATED
FIRST SECONDARY: GRADUATED
FINAL DEGREE: PHD
DEGREE OF STUDY: ARCH ANTH

MAIN CIVILIAN OCCUPATION:
ACADEMIC - ARCHEOLOGICAL TRANSLATOR
DATE [ILLEGIBLE]: 11901-E

SERVICE NO: N/A : CIVILIAN
PHYSICAL CATEGORY: A-2
ENLISTMENT LOC: COLORADO

Is that Olympia, Washington, or Olympia, Greece? The text is too unclear to determine. I personally think the idea of Daniel being born in Greece is irresistible (Aurora's post includes a delightful comment to the same effect), but it might have easily been Washington State, or even a fictitious Olympia arbitrarily selected by the props department. (Aurora likes the idea of an Olympia in Oregon, since the Ballards, in any case, have some connection there - that's where Nick's psychiatric institution is located.) In any case, this information did not become available until the sixth season episode of Full Disclosure; and perhaps there are more Daniel fans out there like me – I never bothered watching more than three specific episodes of that season, and I missed this episode entirely.

The only time we actually witness Daniel and his parents interact is in Season Two, during the events of Gamekeeper. Unfortunately, the only time that we can be absolutely sure that Claire and Mel are wholly in character is the first loop, in which Daniel only watches and does not speak to them. In subsequent loops, when Daniel tries to stop their deaths from happening, the Gamekeeper is directly influencing their behavior and reactions; so it's impossible to say whether Claire is usually brisk and kindly dismissive or whether Mel is usually brusque and perfectly willing to have anonymous workmen haul his eight-year-old son off the premises. The only behavior that Daniel certifies for us as entirely in character for them is that his parents used to call him Danny when he was little.

ETA: Aurora comes through for us yet again! abyssinia4077 wondered about the canon source for Daniel's parents' name, and I panicked at the possible Ewok incusion! But Aurora found their names listed in the credits for Gamekeeper: Claire and Melburn. Sigh. That's actually why I always call him Mel; that spelling, to my eyes, is atrocious. But at least it's solidly canon, so we're safe from any Ewoks. :)

Our next bit of canon involves the deaths of Daniel's parents. His status as an orphan is already confirmed in the movie:

"Your parents, Jackson?"

"My foster parents."

We get a quick glimpse of the photograph that Katherine is holding. The child pictured in it is much younger than show canon's Daniel was when he was eligible for foster parents, so either movie canon suggests his parents' deaths at an earlier age, or the child in the picture isn't actually Daniel, but a foster brother. The book gives us the additional detail that his parents were killed in a plane crash in 1973, which makes the child in the picture the right age for a Daniel born in '66 or '67. In any case, Daniel's reference to his foster parents suggests that he had only one set of foster parents after his own parents' death.

It's not until The Gamekeeper that we discover that not only is Daniel orphaned, but he actually witnessed his parents' deaths when they were crushed by a falling coverstone. In late Season Three, we learn that this happened when he was eight years old and that he has a grandfather, Nicholas Ballard, who refused to adopt Daniel at the time, since he'd already found (and lost) the crystal skull in '71 and was obsessed with finding it again. Since the movie specifies foster parents and not adoptive parents, we can assume that Daniel was never formally adopted. Five years later, in Threads, that we learn that Nick took Daniel to a diner for waffles after the funeral. Threads does not specify that Nick told Daniel that he couldn't adopt him while they were at the diner, although many fanfic writers suggest this.

I have noticed that very, very few fanfic authors have a positive view of Nick.

Canon draws a blank on the next eight years for Daniel. Although the book tells us that he's a city boy with no experience with domesticated animals, we really don't learn any details about Daniel's life until we get to his academic history. This proves to be contradictory and confusing, so we'll take it step by step.

The book gives us a frustrated Daniel looking back at his previous successes after the lecture:

Wasn't he the boy who had won the scholarships in high school for his translations of Phoenician poetry, then had been accepted at UCLA when he was only sixteen? The young wizard with the triple major in languages, philology, and ancient history? How had he let so much promise slip through his fingers to end up a scorned, dead-broke, friendless, lonely, unemployed, and very wet ex-professor?

We are told that he taught at Columbia. His department chair was Dr. Ajami, who introduced him at the lecture as follows:

"He graduated with his Master's at the age of twenty… He has written several seminal articles on the comparative linguistics of the Afro-Asiatic language groups, and, of course, on the development of the Egyptian language from the Archaic Period to the Old Kingdom…"

The MGM press release tells us that Daniel holds a Ph.D. in Anthropology as well as a Ph.D. in Linguistics.

So our apocryphal sources give him three majors, which are either languages, philology, and ancient history or anthropology and linguistics, while in the movie, he is only identified as an Egyptologist. On the show, he most frequently calls himself an archeologist; the information onscreen in Full Disclosure in S6 gives his degrees as being in archeology and anthropology. His AU counterpart in the first mirror universe, at the end of S1, was known as a linguist; his AU counterpart in the Moebius-verse, at the end of S8, identified himself as an Egyptologist. We don't get a specific, verbal canonical statement about Daniel's academic record until the ninth season episode The Scourge (no specific spoilers):

"Doctor Daniel Jackson. Ph.D. in Archaeology, Anthropology, and Philology."

So much for his credentials. Where, exactly, did he earn them?

The book has him accepted at UCLA. In FIAD in Season Three, we learn that Robert Rothman was his research assistant when he earned his dissertation, but we don't know where that was. In Season Four, The Curse takes us to Chicago, where Daniel's former archeology professor, Dr. David Jordan, has been killed. That implies that he studied in the Oriental Institute there. However, we run into a contradiction in Season Seven, when we learn from Daniel's Osiris-induced dreams/memories that when Daniel and Sarah were at the Oriental Institute, they had both already earned their doctorates before they met. That would suggest that Dr. Jordan didn't teach Daniel, but mentored him, which means that Daniel didn't actually get his degree in Chicago… unless he studied there as a student and either remained or returned after earning his degree, which is when he met Sarah. That leaves us without clear canon for where he earned his degrees.

ETA: Thanks to green_grrl who points out that there is canonical evidence that at least one of Daniel's degrees was earned at UCLA! While the Air Force officers invite Daniel out of the pouring rain into the limo, Katherine is busy paging through his dossier, which includes a very brief glimpse of a diploma. The only detail I can personally make out is that he graduated in June; the year doesn't seem to be visible, nor does the nature of the degree. Someone with better eyes, or possibly more talent in making screencaps, might get further than me.

 

Then there's Daniel's flair for languages. The book gives him eleven, including Armenian and Greek; the press release suggests over twenty, with "Ancient Egyptian" cited as one of those. Daniel himself, in 1969, tells Jack that he speaks "twenty-three different languages." Whether or not Goa'uld or Abydonian was on that list is questionable, since the topic of discussion was Earth languages he might use to pose as someone other than himself when he met the Katherine Langford of 1969. The languages confirmed on the show are German (1969), Russian (1969, Watergate, and Full Alert), Spanish (Evolution), and Mandarin (The Scourge). (In regards to Mandarin, Daniel speaks at least one dialect; he needs a translator for a different dialect in Fragile Balance, unless the man in that case was speaking Japanese – I don't pretend to be even vaguely familiar with either of those languages. [ETA: redatdawn identified it from the script of Fragile Balance as being Cantonese.] And some people have cheerfully suggested that considering his atrocious accent in 1969, he probably shouldn't include German, either.)

 

ETA: Whoops! Forgot Daniel's experiences as an archeologist on Earth. We learned in Season One's Brief Candle that Daniel was part of a dig in the Yucatan and ended up delivering a baby when there was no one else to do it; after that, he studied with the local mid-wife, which is a nice nod to Daniel's love for knowledge in all shapes and forms.

What do we know of Daniel's life outside of academic pursuits?

Between the time Daniel earned his degrees and he presented his disastrous lecture, we know that he used to visit Nick regularly at the psychiatric institution. Nick disparaged Daniel's theories, much as Daniel did his.

Nick asserted that Daniel claimed the pyramids were built by aliens. Daniel did not claim that; he said that the pyramids were older than Egyptologists had assumed, and a jeering member of the audience caustically suggested that maybe Daniel thought they'd been built by aliens: "Martians, perhaps?" Orinarily, show canon supersedes movie canon; but since Nick also said that Daniel "hadn't published in two years," and it had been four years since Daniel had walked through the Stargate to Abydos, I'll take movie canon over Nick canon any day.

As for Daniel's personal life, the book suggests that he has no trouble striking up casual relationships with women. There's Svetlana, the girl who runs the office for his apartment building: They had joked and flirted and even gone around the corner for Thai food a couple of times. But just when things were starting to warm up between them, he'd run out of funds and had turned into "the problem tenant." In the movie, Daniel has no trouble initiating a kiss with a painfully shy Sha'uri. In show canon, we first learn that he had a girlfriend in Season Four, when we meet Sarah Gardener in The Curse; we don't discover that the level of intimacy in that relationship until Season Seven, from the dreams/memories that Osiris prompts in Chimera.

Daniel's final lecture in academia took place at the Park Plaza Hotel, with no city specified. (Thanks, moonshayde, for pointing that out!) The book puts the lecture in the Scottish Rite Temple on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles. From that point, pre-series Daniel's story is over, and we have the canon of the movie and the show for his current events.

 

That's about all we have of Daniel's canonical backstory. It isn't much, is it? In some ways, that lack is a blessing; it invites the fanfic author to use imagination freely to create a plausible background for the man we know and love. But since we do have so much free rein, why do so many writers follow the same tired fanon themes, disregarding how implausible many of them might be?

In terms of Daniel's birth, I think it's only fair to recognize that Aurora's discovery of canon Olympia is actually a three-second glimpse at a screen prop at the beginning of a clip show in Season Six. Any fanfic written before that can hardly be expected to observe that canon, and even those authors writing after that show was aired can claim plausible deniability at missing it. But with an entire world to choose from, the vast majority of fanfic authors place Daniel's birth in Egypt, with New York running a close second – presumably because his parents died there. There are usually references to Arabic being Daniel's first language, with Dutch as a frequent second choice (because of Nick Ballard). None of this, of course, has any basis in canon.

We have no canonical information on the first eight years of his life: whether he was formally schooled, or had private tutors, or was taught by his parents; whether his parents took him with them on digs, or left him with friends or nannies; or even what kind of relationship Daniel had with his parents. Most fanfic writers present Daniel's childhood with his parents as idyllic, usually with Daniel running freely through the sand dunes while his indulgent parents teach him his hieroglyphics before he learns his ABCs. There is nothing that contradicts this, but there's nothing that confirms it, either; so why does everyone choose the same backstory?

Now, Daniel's birth and early years are, despite the sameness of the common fanon themes, not very controversial. But now we come to those blank years between his parents' deaths and his university years… and here's where fanon gets rather ugly.

I think that too few writers recognize the following fact: No adoption does NOT equal only temporary fostering. All we know is that Daniel had foster parents. The nature of those parents, or how long Daniel remained with those foster parents, is unknown.

As far as I can tell, the rampant fanon tropes of Daniel suffering from a series of successive, abusive foster homes is based on a single canonical fact: Daniel's tendency, especially in the early seasons, of self-hugging – wrapping his arms around his chest for what seems to be the need to provide himself with emotional warmth. From this habit, authors seem to have leapt upon the conviction that Daniel never received any kind of affection after his parents' death; that he has always been starved for approval, acknowledgment, and hugs; and that the show clearly failed to provide Daniel with enough angst, so it's the fanfic writer's job to supply lots and lots more.

There is no canon evidence that Daniel was abused during the years he was fostered. There is no canon evidence that he had more than one foster home; if anything, the movie implies the opposite. There is, in fact, no canon evidence about those years at all.

I'm not trying to disparage the many fanfic writers out there who choose to go this route. I am trying to point out that there's no canon for it, that Daniel has plenty of tragedy in his life without inventing more, and that Daniel couldn't possibly be the strong, self-confident Ph.D. who dared to openly express his controversial views before a skeptical academic audience if he had truly been downtrodden as badly as so many fanfic authors would suggest. To be completely frank, abused!Daniel seems to serve only one pupose: more whumping equals more comforting, so pile on the angst in order to get more hugs. The problem with that, of course, is that by the time many such writers have finished, their Daniel (or Danny) is no longer recognizable as the strong, competent Dr. Daniel Jackson of SG-1.

Another common fanon theme is Daniel-the-Innocent: a Daniel that has never dated, who was never in a relationship before Sha're, and needed to be taught and guided by Sha're into a successful marriage. By S4, with the appearance of Sarah Gardener, this theory was pretty much damaged; by S7, Chimera more or less demolished it. But even without Sarah Gardener, the movie itself disputes this assertion.

While Daniel didn't realize that he and Sha'uri were married until the boys mentioned it two days after the fact, this was because he had no way of knowing that Sha'uri-the-Gift was actually intended to be Sha'uri-the-Bride. Once he realized the truth and confronted Sha'uri, it was Daniel who initiated their first kiss; Sha'uri herself was shy and timid, believing that Daniel didn't desire her. Daniel clearly convinced her otherwise, because once Ra was dead, that same shy girl had absolutely no trouble kissing Daniel on the steps of the temple in front of the entire city of Nagada. And, as randomfreshink pointed out in a previous discussion, Sha're had certainly gained enough self-confidence in their year together to plant that searing kiss on Daniel in COTG – and someone had to teach her that!

My personal fanon opinion? The movie and the show have given us very little canon backstory for Daniel – just enough to give us an understanding of his motivations and characterization, and to tantalize us into wanting more. We have a mostly blank canvas on which authors can choose to paint an array of individual and original landscapes… so why, why, why do so many authors choose the easier route of following what so many others have done before – especially when those choices are a direct contradiction to Daniel's personality and character? I appeal to all you wonderful fanfic writers out there: create your own backstory for our archeologist, and make it one that can reasonably allow the delightfully stubborn Dr. Daniel Jackson that we all know and love to come into being!

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

Stargate was written by Dean Devin and Roland Emmerich. No copyright infringement is intended by quoting some of its passages in this post.

Comments

Something I don't understand/an idea requesting commentary....

[anna-dannir.livejournal.com]

Daniel's in foster care at 16. In New York State. They don't recognize/grant 'official' emancipated minor status in New York.
How the heck did he get permission to go to UCLA at 16? (I'm not questioning the full scholarship angle, just the permission from NYDCS/NYDFS)
By this point Nick is in an institution. No way (even if we accept the concept that Nick still retained guardianship, which I do not)that they could have 'reliably' gotten Nick's permission to let Daniel go there, and on its own DCF would be adverse to letting him go out of their jurisdiction while he is still legally 'their problem'.

I thought about that and thought about that and came to the conclusion (granted, very fanon) that he initially went to Columbia (Columbia College: the undergrad arm of the University).
1. Has a needs based grant program (I'm not entirely sure it was in place in 1981, but it certainly is now) that pays out for all four years, and also has at least one scholarship available that is aimed specifically at orphans raised in NYC (a many decades old scholarship)
2. It is in NYC.
BTW: there's no indication that NYC 'farms out' their fosterkids to upstate as far as I can tell, so I'm figuring he stayed in the city after his parents died, because I'm assuming (I know! I know!) that they had gotten an apartment in the city while putting up the exhibit because commuting into/out of NYC is a pain even if a lot of people do it, which would make Daniel's commute to Columbia a breeze from nearly anywhere in the city because it has its own subway stop.
3. Columbia has a Anthro with Linguistics combined (not double) BA program that is (if I understood it properly) a 4 year degree, which could, if he did a lot of HS AP courses/tested out of low level core courses, be done in three years (and we know Daniel has no life and his addiction to Caffiene started in college (don't we?)). He might have even gotten permission to double-major Anthro/L with Arch and done all of it in 4 years, but that would be a stretch even for him.

So I'm figuring Columbia --> UCLA --> UChicago/Oriental Institute over 13 years with the UCLA stopover being his Masters/one PhD and UChicago being the other PhD/working toward his third.

So, what do you think?

Re: Something I don't understand/an idea requesting commentary....

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

First of all, welcome to the discussion! :)

Okay, so let's see if we can sort through this.

You've made three statements here: that Daniel was is foster care in New York State, that he was granted emacipated minor status, and that he went to UCLA at 16.

I'll grant you the strong probability of the first one; his parents died in New York State, so it makes sense that he came under New York State laws for fostering. But there's no proof that he remained in New York State. We know that Nick wouldn't keep him, but we don't know where he was fostered. It might have been in New York State, yes. But it might also have been family friends - possibly even as directed by Nick, who knows? - who lived elsewhere. I'm not familiar enough with state laws to know if foster parents are required to remain within the boundaries of the state where the child was orphaned and came under the auspices of the state's foster care.

However, I would like to remind you that "going to UCLA at the age of 16," whether or not it was with emancipated minor status, is not series canon or even movie canon - it's apocryphal, from the novelization of the movie. (That same book contradicts the movie repeatedly.) So while we're welcome to use it as backstory, and many people do, it's not something that a fanfic writer really needs to hesitate before contradicting. Movie canon does confirm that he earned at least one degree in UCLA, but not which or when.

I quite like your idea of Columbia, because you clearly know what you're talking about (and I don't, heh) with regards to the degrees offered, and the bit about a scholarship for orphans raised in NYC is fascinating!) There's also the added detail that the book has Daniel teaching at Columbia. It doesn't contradict canon, so who cares it contradicts half of fanon? That's the beauty of the blank slate: we can fill in those blanks as we'd like. So I'd say that you've offered a very plausible scenario, and one that could fit quite nicely into a pre-series fic if someone wanted to use it.

Are you offering it up for adoption...? :)

Re: Something I don't understand/an idea requesting commentary....

[anna-dannir.livejournal.com]

You've made three statements here: that Daniel was is foster care in New York State, that he was granted emacipated minor status, and that he went to UCLA at 16.

Actually, what I was saying was that I would have to assume (ah! There's that word again ;-) )that since his parents died in NYC and there is no indication that Nick did anything other than show up, go to court, take Daniel out for waffles, drop him off and leave, that Daniel was still in NYC.
If this is so then he CANNOT have been granted emancipated minor status (doesn't exist in NY) and thus would be unable to attend UCLA at 16 (which I see from your response that it is apocrypha anyway).

And yes, it is necessary that a family fostering a child through DCS who wishes to continue to foster said child (who is a ward of the state) must stay within the jurisdiction in which they began said fosterage. If they have to move house to another jurisdiction then the child is placed elsewhere. I believe that this is true in all 50 states. I know it is true in NY and CT because, although the department is statewide, they try not to transfer files (ie: children) between offices if they can help it because that's one of the ways a kid can slip through the cracks.

The only situations that I am aware of where this is not followed (assuming the parents are deceased/declared unfit) is if the child is being taken in by blood relatives or if the persons who are taking the child in are mentioned in the parents wills. And then the DCS with original jurisdiction will hand off the file to the DCS in the town/state where the relatives/guardians (and the child) will reside so that 'spot checks' may happen as well as support services offered. At least that's the ideal anyway.

If somehow my Nick scenario (above) is wrong, (and from what I remember of what little was actually said about it, I don't think I am) then Nick could have made arrangements with family friends to take Daniel in, but then he would not have been a ward of the state. They would have stuck their noses in to make sure the family was appropriate, but he would have been Nick's ward to place as he saw fit. Daniel would also have (probably) spent the next 8 years with said family and would have had all his parents stuff available to him (whatever they had: books, journals, whatever) and he probably would not have been hurt by Nick's 'rejection' because it would not have been a rejection (even if Nick had completely stuffed the explanation at the waffle house). The impression I have of the whole thimble-sized backstory with Nick was that he had simply turned Daniel's guardianship over to DCS and left for South America (note that in a voluntary surrendering of a minor by a relative for an indeterminate time does not auto-sever all ties to the child, although at any time after that the case can be brought up for review by a judge and the child can (if there is cause) be declared 'abandoned' and all rights can be severed, but I doubt that happened in this case).

Mind you, unlike most fanfic readers/writers, I think some of Nick's haste to get away was because Daniel looks too much like his mother or maybe Grandmother, but hey, that's just me: definitely not canon.
Of course depending on how AU you want to take it, Daniel's reaction to this (from his 8 yr old POV) 'drive-thru-abandonment' can range from relatively mild (like what we know is canon) to utter rejection: never seeing Nick again.

While I do call dibs on the Columbia scenario for myself (for backstory/flashback), scenarios like this are like cookies: I certainly don't mind sharing. If it morphs into a plotbunny and bites someone else's rear end all the better.

Re: Something I don't understand/an idea requesting commentary....

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I confess that this is really outside my area of expertise. Let's stick to the actual facts we have:

Mel and Claire died in the New York Museum of Art. (Gamekeeper)

Daniel was eight. (Crystal Skull)

Nick took him for waffles after the funeral. (Threads)

Nick didn't adopt him because he was "travelling all around the world." (Crystal Skull)

Daniel visited Nick regularly until right before he met Catherine. (Crystal Skull)

When you look at those bare facts, shorn of the usual fanon conclusions, there's actually no proof that Daniel was ever part of the formal foster care system. I don't think. :) So while I agree that the facts, as you present them, make an awful lot of sense, I imagine that it could also be extrapolated that Nick couldn't adopt him, but privately had him fostered with old family friends or a mutual acquaintance who was willing to watch Nick's grandson.

The regular visits do imply that they had a relatively amicable relationship, and Daniel's resigned, "I was eight years old, how could it be my fault?" can be equally interpreted as wry or bitter. So where does that leave us? Not sure, really!

My personal feelings for Nick are rather contradictory. I think it was practical for him to realize that he probably wasn't very good grandfather material, and the scenario that he placed Daniel somewhere where he could get a decent upbringing suggests more responsibility than grumpily abandoning his life's work (and possibly taking it out on the kid). On the other hand, his manipulation of Daniel's plight, when he baldly lied so he could go through the Stargate? Not so nice there, Nick. On the third hand, Daniel also lied to get through the Gate the first time, so... Maybe it's just a family habit, like archeological obsession. ;)

Thanks for all the interesting information here. I'll say again that I quite like the scenario you've presented. I'll add that I look forward to reading your fic, whenever you finish writing it. :)

Re: Something I don't understand/an idea requesting commentary....

[anna-dannir.livejournal.com]

Mel and Claire died in the New York Museum of Art. (Gamekeeper)
Daniel was eight. (Crystal Skull)
Nick took him for waffles after the funeral. (Threads)
Nick didn't adopt him because he was "travelling all around the world." (Crystal Skull)
Daniel visited Nick regularly until right before he met Catherine. (Crystal Skull)

When you look at those bare facts, shorn of the usual fanon conclusions, there's actually no proof that Daniel was ever part of the formal foster care system. I don't think.

I disagree with your conclusion that there's no proof Daniel was ever part of the formal foster care system. One of the pivot questions (unanswered, I think, more's the pity) is "how long (in canon) between Mel and Claire's deaths and the funeral?" *

In between those two events Daniel would certainly have been 'in the system' because the cops would have called in DCS as a matter of course as part of their investigation. DCS has pretty much one set of orders in cases like this: conservation of the 'at risk' minor (that means they find temporary placement for the child so that he/she is in a safe location while things are sorted out). And then they would have waited for Nick to arrive also.
Knowing that this is pretty much how it works everywhere (well 'big-city' everywhere anyway) in the US, the only conclusion I can draw is that one of the options still on the table is that Nick didn't make 'alternate arrangements' but left Daniel with the people he had been placed with already (perhaps not understanding that the placement Daniel was in was one of the very temporary types).

This doesn't necessarily make Nick a bad person. This makes Nick a person grieving for his daughter but who also has other things pulling at him (his obsession with the skull for example). It may be that he could not (without losing whatever grant he was working under) spend an extended period dealing with Daniel's situation. It may be that he decided to leave Daniel with 'professionals', perhaps because they told him Daniel needed stability/a psychologist/whatever. But we just don't know.

Nick has always struck me (in what little we know about him) as pretty much an anti-Jack. For one thing he's not a kid person. He is for himself first and foremost, and with a minor twist that can easily become 'I'm for me and devil take everyone else'.
As you rightly point out he and Daniel both don't mind a bit of subterfuge if it gets them what they want, but the difference is that Daniel generally does this with relatively unselfish ends in mind (even if said ends are also self-serving in the short-term) and Nick generally appears to be more selfish reasoned than that (I point you to the entirity of his actions in Crystal Skull for examples).

I put it to you that Daniel forgiving Nick has nothing to do with Nick's actions but has everything to do with Daniel's own heart and (perhaps) his growing appreciation of the sort of academic pressures Nick might have been under at the time and/or a new appreciation of Nick's own character (ie: Daniel realizing that Nick never had been 'Grandpa' material).
I suggest to you that the visits did not even begin until Daniel went to UCLA because before that he could not afford the airfare and he could (probably) drive up from UCLA if he didn't mind spending all day on the road in each direction. Depending on where in Oregon Nick was it could be a 17 or 18 hour drive or more to get to him based on google maps (so +/- 4 hours). There might have been an AMTRAK option (which would have allowed him to work/sleep on the way at least).
But it is true that we just don't know: they just don't say in canon.

*Many fanfics that I have read suggest there was a space of between 'a few weeks' to 'several months' between M&C's deaths and their funerals. As long as DCS reached the University/patron sponsoring Nick's dig and were assured that Nick would be in contact, then they would put Daniel (and the disposition of M&C's bodies) in a 'holding pattern' until Nick arrived.
Sometimes this is a jumping off point for a very AU story (often a crossover) that has little to nothing to do with Nick or Daniel's feelings about Nick.

Re: Something I don't understand/an idea requesting commentary....

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I'll defer to your obvious expertise here. :) You're right, of course, that the police would've certainly been called in. Unless there was a close family friend nearby who could get hold of Nick immediately, Daniel would've certainly ended up as part of the foster care system.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that, and I'd concede that probability suggests that your scenario is the likely one. On the other hand - well, it's not canon. :) So I'm going to say that yes, Daniel was probably part of the foster care system, and that he most likely spent his post-parents years as a ward of the state - but that a story that doesn't use that scenario is still compliant with canon.

The observation that Nick and Daniel have both lied in their own self-interest was a little farcical, yes. :) Daniel exaggerated his ability to find the address on the other side of the Gate, which did endanger the rest of the team.. Nick shamelessly exploited Daniel's plight for his own ends, both in manipulating his way into the SGC and lying about . Admittedly, it was an obsession he'd been struggling with for three decades, but...

I'm very intrigued by your assessment of Nick and Daniel's relationship - when Daniel arrived at his understanding of Nick's motivations, when he started visiting Nick (although remember, we don't know precisely when Nick had himself committed), and most importantly, whether Daniel's forgiveness of Nick was due to comprehension of those motivations or his own grown maturity. Very nice stuff!

Nick as anti-Jack, heh. No wonder he and Daniel never go along. :)

Re: Something I don't understand/an idea requesting commentary....

[anna-dannir.livejournal.com]

Thanks for all the interesting information here. I'll say again that I quite like the scenario you've presented. I'll add that I look forward to reading your fic, whenever you finish writing it. :)

You're welcome. I've had to do a lot of research while writing in another fandom about the NYS legal system WRT minors and some of it (like in most things that have evolved over time) is so completely back-assward and un-intuitive that it really is not at all funny.
The info about Columbia actually came out of some of that (a side trip trying to decide where realistically to send one of the characters...).

The SG-1 fic I'm writing goes AU from Part 1: Chapter One and generally diverges from canon from there while keeping (some of) the episodic framework. I suppose I really should post the first part since its done (barring rewrites), but I need a strong beta who likes to play devil's advocate/likes to debate and extrapolate and who has a good grasp of character voice (I have an especially hard time with Teal'c. As you can tell I'm verbose....)

Of course part 2 is bogged down because I keep wanting to not-skim over some stuff that will probably bore everyone else and I'm not sure I shouldn't take a twist or two out of that particular tiger's tail because I'm not sure where one of the changes I keep wanting to make will actually take me.

But that's typical.

Now if I could just get my husband's grandmother to not come in and want to talk while I'm watching the DVDs....
She's 90-mumble and does not get that I'm doing research, even if I'm taking notes. To her TV is background noise while you're doing something else.