Redial the Gate: Prodigy

[fignewton]

Remember that poll I had up last week about watching Prodigy?

The last choice on the poll was this: I don't care if you watch it or not, but SG-1 is LOVE!

I was SO RIGHT.

Just... 42 minutes of NEW show. That is pure GLEE, people.

I was grinning at vintage Jack in the teaser with Generals Hammond and Ryan. "Sir. Sirs." "Your Air Force. The Air Force. I love the Air Force." And I love that it's the real Chief of Staff.

Eeee! Show!

Sam: "...No offense, Professor."

Abyssis, I take it all back. A transcript doesn't do Hailey justice. I was waiting for the arrogance and you know what? It wasn't there. And SAM, Sam I love you! Such delicious intellectual honesty, after the professor dismisses Hailey and she walks away - Sam looks again at the board and openly admits her mistake. Take THAT all you silly Sam-haters who think Sam refuses to ever admit to being less than perfect!

Major Griff, nicely recovered from being shot in The First Ones! I love continuity with other SG teams. And yay that he gets out before getting whumped again. Also, that smirk at Jack as he passes the buck on the annoying scientists is priceless. :)

Now, see, this is where what I call Mary Sueishness comes in: "Her SAT scores were through the roof, even higher than yours." That's classic Mary Sue there: being better (or should that be "bet-ter"?) than the main character. "Her physical skills are terrific, despite her size..." And so on, and so on. Seeing those lines in a transcript without the scene in front of you... Yeah.

BILL LEE IN A BASEBALL CAP!!!!!! Ahem. Scuse me. :)

Still getting Mary Sue vibes from the little scene between Sam and Hailey. (Although am vastly amused at what we know and she doesn't re matter and wormholes, heh.) Ah, well. Pressing on, pressing on...

Okay, you know how much you missed watching new Stargate when you find yourself giggling at a single "Indeed" from Teal'c!

"Actually, it's a P-90." Oh, Jack. ::loves him:: Talk about smirks!

Teal'c is too awesome for words! Pointing out his age along with his and Jack's experience. And how gleeful am I that Teal'c once again knows more pop culture than I do? "Thank you, Rocko." Gracious nod from Teal'c. Someone care to explain this to me?

Okay, scene with Hailey and Sam in Kerrigan's office. Good for Hailey for breaking the guy's nose :) but I'd be happier if we'd know what punishment Hailey got - as it stands, it feels like not only doesn't she get expelled, but she gets rewarded with a trip through the Gate. OTOH, yay for Sam telling her she's not always going to be the best at everything - I needed that, heh.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with what a lot of you said back on the poll entry (which I never dreamed would explode like that!). Hailey is what Sam used to be - bright and frustrated and longing for a challenge. And I do find myself liking her. But what I call Mary Sueism (not the anti-woman thing, but the guest star being so wonderful thing) still seems pretty prominent.

The gas giant in the moon's sky is stunning. I love the simple shorthand for OTHER PLANET.

Bill Lee is so much fun! I love that he is utter scientist and still follows protocol - the way he takes the time to yell into the radio to tell Jack what's happening.

Random challenged me to consider where Daniel would fit into the episode. The moment when the scientists see the lightning swarm and Hamilton walks forward - that was it for me. I so wanted Daniel to try to talk to them right then! "Hello, we're peaceful... scientists from the planet Earth!" :)

So, we jump to Hailey in the SGC. Okay, she's passed security, she's signed the non-disclosure form, Sam only told her that she's going to see "deep space telemetry" (and I love the expression on her face when she says that, heh) - but... I'm sorry, Hailey fans. It feels wrong. I know the secret of the Stargate is a huge joke in later seasons (in S9-10, they're not even trying any more), but at this point, the only non-SGC member who has ever walked through the Gate is Jacob Carter, on his way to become a host for Selmac. A cadet? This is the biggest Mary Sue moment for me, and it really does break my threshold of disbelief. YMMV, of course. I do like what many people pointed out: that Sam is acting as mentor here, for a girl she sees as being where she once was. But I just can't buy it.

Best line ever: "...an officer worthy of serving under your command." Oh, I love that. Hammond. Yes, Sam, that is perfect.

I have a special fondness for shots through the event horizon at what's past it. Love that Sam's technobabble isn't babble to Hailey!

Aw, such a nice little friendship scene with Jack and Sam at the Gate! And I liked Hailey here, yes.

Eee! Swarms attack! And yes, right after they trapped one and released it. Again, Bill tries to radio Jack. Did I mention I love Bill Lee? :) Neat intelligence pointer, how they slap the radio right out of Bill's hand.

"So, I'm guessing you're not...

"Human."

::squishes Teal'c for that half-smile::

Okay, so retreat into the hut. Zats. Electrocute the walls. Am I the only one who was thinking giant bug zapper?

Also, I was utterly fangirling Teal'c for saying the full word: "zatnikatel." I think my Teal'c love has grown irrational of late. I don't actually see a problem with this. :)

To me, it said so much about the team of SG-1 that Sam automatically knew that if anyone was going to make the run, it would be Jack. All three of them accepted it as a given. Yes.

Okay, I forgive Hailey for almost everything for this line alone: "We hold them off with those phaser things." :)

Sigh. Then she ruins it with this: "You're not right. I am." Ergh.

And here again is a place where Daniel is missed, because he should have been bolstering Sam's argument here about lifeforms and intelligence and the SGC vs. the natives - Sam with scientific proof, Daniel with humanistic (if you'll pardon the pun) theories.

Oh, Sam, I love the way you spelled it out for Hailey on the choices Jack makes. That is leadership - not just from Jack, but from Sam too. Excellent.

"Carter, if he so much as brings a file folder, shoot him!"

"Yes, sir."

::grins::

"Are you ready, O'Neill?"

"No. ...Give me a warning."

~click~ "I am going to shoot you."

I LOVE TEAL'C SO MUCH.

And then this had me laughing out loud: "I was thinking more along the lines of 'on three.' One..." ~zap~

Why oh why did Jack do things so slowly and deliberately? Why not zat the swarm and dial out as fast as possible? And then he drops the zat! But Teal'c, of course, is so fantastically awesome that he risks himself and strides out there, unzatted, to save Jack. ::nods::

"I'll never complain about mosquitoes again." No crack from Teal'c after their fishing expedition in The Curse? :)

And Bill stops to thank Jack. Y'know, I adore Bill Lee, and I never saw this ep before. Why doesn't everyone else love him to the nth power after this?

Bottom line: No, this is never going to be a favorite of mine. Yes, I still see Mary Sue aspects to Hailey, but it's not half as bad as the transcript led me to expect. Yes, I did find her (mostly) likable, and I look forward to seeing her again in Proving Ground to see if my opinion of her will change in that ep too. Yes, Teal'c is awesome. :D Yes, Jack is too. Yes, so is Sam. Yes, Bill Lee is great. Yes, Daniel could have fit into this, and I'm sorry he wasn't there.

YES, it was fantastic to watch a brand new ep of SG-1, and I'm suddenly looking forward to S6!

...And yes, I want someone to write the fic where the lightning bugs turn out to be the Furlings! :)

Comments

[nomadicwriter]

See! See! See?! *Daniel flail*

You should listen to us when we tell you to watch stuff. ;P

[colej55.livejournal.com]

I think you said it all - especially the part about their taking a cadet through the gate. That bugs me, too. When you posted the pre-watch commentary, I was going to point out that Hailey is just a young Sam, so I'm glad that you see that and found some other things to like about her, as well.

Go Dr. Lee! Bill Dow is wonderful in this role! He's a great character actor who has added much to the show over the years.

Favorite moment? When Teal'c zats Jack. Perfect comedy with Teal'c as the straight man.

I really like this episode for all the reasons you stated. I just put my Mary Sue blinders on and enjoy all of the other goodness.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Hee :) This really is a Very Good Teal'c Episode. I mean, I love it for a lot of reasons, but very good Teal'c.

"Her SAT scores were through the roof, even higher than yours." That's classic Mary Sue there: being better (or should that be "bet-ter"?) than the main character. "Her physical skills are terrific, despite her size..."

*nods* I think this is the single strongest case to the Mary Sue point. What saves it for me is 1) if she were truly a Mary Sue ALL the characters would be agreeing that she's the smartest and following her every command rather than taking her down a few notches (in my mind someone thinking of themselves as extra-special isn't Mary Sue, it's the story and other characters telling us so that is) 2) the way she acts is "arrogant teenager" and the reactions of people around her are (aside from this one moment with this one officer) "you may be booksmart, but you have a lot to learn" and 3) selective memory :)

Honestly, this quote doesn't make much sense to me. First off, Sam took the SATs with the older grading system and Hailey with the newer (where it's easier to score higher). Second off, when you get to the upper end of SATs, the difference between, say, a 1550 and 1600 is really more on whether you were having a good test day and there's no way Sam did poorly enough to make there be that much of a difference, even if Hailey scored perfect. And, finally, SATs don't really mean much in terms of intelligence and doing well. Hailey being top of her class means A LOT more. *ahem* *stops academic rant*

Is Hailey annoying and arrogant? Yep. What I love is that even in spite that she is willing to learn and listen and try to change and I love that we see that change - that maturation - when she comes back in "Proving Ground" and I'm glad Sam got to take a girl who was a lot like her and help start molding her to become what she could be - which is, I think, a lot of what Jack did for Sam in season one.

I agree the letting-her-go-through-the-gate thing was silly and eye-rolling but I do feel they've gotten more and more lax this season and maybe this was one of the first more grievous occurrences, but in the light of show trends, it doesn't bother me that much. (It would bother me A LOT more if she wasn't Air Force. Plus, maybe they were already talking about recruiting from the Academy and this was a first test? Oh, I could find all sorts of handwaves)

Anyway, Very Glad you enjoyed it. I agree it's not their best episode, but I think it has enough good bits to stand well on its own

*patiently waits for Furling fic*

[aelfgyfu_mead]

I was going to say much of what you said...but now I don't need to.

Some bits of this ep really annoy me, but you and Fig have identified most or all of them. I like much of it anyway--especially Bill and Teal'c. (I had a tough choice here, deciding whether to use my Bill icon or my Teal'c icon! I get more opportunities to use Teal'c, so I went for Bill.)

Fig, have you seen Hailey's other appearance yet? (I hope that's not too spoilery.) I wanted to see more of her after that.

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

Yay! Ah, I miss new Stargate eps. And I just adore every moment of Jack and Teal'c in this ep. Particularly when Teal'c zats Jack - oh, I bet he relished the opportunity. *g*

but at this point, the only non-SGC member who has ever walked through the Gate is Jacob Carter, on his way to become a host for Selmac.

And Martin Lloyd, just a few eps back. Don't forget Marty! And whoever was evacuated through the Gate in Serpent's Lair (I forget, do we know if they're SGC personnel or just groups of the best and brightest, no matter what their military status?).

[pepper-field.livejournal.com]

Oh, and Schrodinger. ;)

[goldjadeocean.livejournal.com]

I think I agree with you. Part of what makes me love Hailey so much is that she is abrasive and arrogant--it feels true to life, and makes her a much better character than if she'd been mild and submissive.

One of the aspects I really liked about this episode was that it plays with the idea that the SGC stands and falls by the brilliance of a lot of people, not just SG-1 (the show really falls down on this later and makes it seem that everyone but our team is an utter dunce, see also: Felger, Cam's S9 recruitment efforts). I personally love SG-1, but I think the show would have been a lot stronger if we'd been able to see the SGC as several hundred smart, motivated, innovative people fighting to destroy the Goa'uld, rather than being... walk-on bit parts to four (or five, whatever) peoples' heroism.

But I think that's just me.

[ryf.livejournal.com]

the show really falls down on this later and makes it seem that everyone but our team is an utter dunce, see also: Felger, Cam's S9 recruitment efforts

Yes, definitely! There really are enough smart people in the world, both Sam and Daniel are very smart, but not smart enough that there's no-one smarter or as smart as them. So Hailey being portrayed as having better grades than Sam is... well, not surprising.

Rodney McKay is certainly portrayed as being better than Sam intellectually and just like Hailey, he is an arrogant prick sometimes. I like the parallels between those three.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Part of what makes me love Hailey so much is that she is abrasive and arrogant--it feels true to life, and makes her a much better character than if she'd been mild and submissive.

*nod nod nod*
It makes sense for someone (who *is* smart and such) who is constantly having to prove herself to become that way - a sort of over-compensating that seems real. And we see it with early Sam and as she learns she's finally in a place where people will accept her abilities, she starts releasing it.

One of the aspects I really liked about this episode was that it plays with the idea that the SGC stands and falls by the brilliance of a lot of people, not just SG-1 (the show really falls down on this later and makes it seem that everyone but our team is an utter dunce, see also: Felger, Cam's S9 recruitment efforts

Yes Yes Yes. SGC is supposed to be the absolute best and the brightest and sure, then you're going to be dealing with egos and arrogance, but still. I get torn with Felger. Mostly because there are parts of the Felger episdoes I like (I love seeing Sam acting as head scientist - being mentory and manager-y to Felger, etc) but I have to vigorously wave my hands because if Felger was really as incompetent as the show insists, he shouldn't be there. Too unbelievable.

I think the show would have been a lot stronger if we'd been able to see the SGC as several hundred smart, motivated, innovative people fighting to destroy the Goa'uld, rather than being... walk-on bit parts to four (or five, whatever) peoples' heroism.

And this is why we have fanfic, right? :P

[ryf.livejournal.com]

Is Hailey annoying and arrogant? Yep.

And I love her all the more for it - because she's probably been told she's oh so brilliant for years by that point. As I mentioned in another comment, I love the similarities between Sam, Hailey and Rodney - Rodney almost certainly was like Hailey at that age and had no-one taking him aside and telling him he won't get far with that attitude.

[ryf.livejournal.com]

It makes sense for someone (who *is* smart and such) who is constantly having to prove herself to become that way

Interesting how differently we interpret this - in her, I see the classic behavior of people who have been told how smart they are a couple of times too often. The students I have met who are like this (and they seem to occur most often in Physics and Computer Sciences) were the ones that surpassed their teachers in the last grades at high school and have never really been challenged before - never really had to study and just trust themselves that they are right because so far no-one could have proven them wrong.

Then suddenly, they come to college and their professors *are* actually smarter than they are :)

[goldjadeocean.livejournal.com]

I think the overcompensating to prove herself makes sense, but also coming from a place of insecurity--I think, especially in Prodigy, Hailey doesn't get what USE she (or anyone else) is if they're not right, all the time. I think that's an utterly fantastic weakness! Which makes me love that being introduced to the Stargate program keeps her from turning into Rodneyette--she realizes that there are much more important things, like duty and loyalty, and that the good of the group is more important than her being given gold stars for science.

if Felger was really as incompetent as the show insists, he shouldn't be there. Too unbelievable.

If Felger was as incompetent as the show insists, and he's representative of the SGC's science department at large, Earth would have been a smoking cinder years ago.

And this is why we have fanfic, right? :P

My entire stargate_summer project, I tell you.

[lavenderlocks.livejournal.com]

Yay! Knew you'd at the least like it - and yes, as ever Teal'c pwns all!! :D

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Daniel flail for the win! :D

Within SG-1, yes. Don't try to tempt me with SGA. ;)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Teal'c is just such LOVE in this episode!

The evolution of Bill Lee strikes me as hilarious. Someone posted... somewhere that "Lee" was originally supposed to be an Asian woman, and it makes me doubly glad that Lee turned out to Bill Dow, because his stopping to thank Jack, and warning him on the radio - all that would seem meek and submissive if a woman played that role. (Think the sweet young Russian soldier in The Tomb.) Don't get me wrong - I want there to be competent bright female scientists, too (even if Hailey might not be my first choice, heh). But Bill Lee - with those ill-fitting glasses that looked like they came from a Holloween costume! - totally perfect.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Everyone talked about the great Jack and Teal'c moments, and they were marvelous, yes. But no one mentioned the sheer awesomeness of Teal'c!

You're right that Hailey doesn't get Mary Sued by everyone, although Kerrigan singing her praises (and not wanting to expel her, because she's so wonderful) comes pretty close. I very much like that Sam and Jack take her down those necessary pegs - not because I think she needs it (although maybe she does) but because it makes her less Mary Sue-ish.

I confess that I glossed over Hailey in Proving Ground - from the skewed perspective I had from the transcript of this ep, it was just one more irritation that Hailey was the cadet "in the know" for that final test. I look forward, as I said, to watching it again with more neutral eyes!

I didn't say I'd write the Furling fic - I just said I want it written. ;)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

You should use your Bill Lee icon more often, because it is STUNNING. :)

Yes, I've seen Proving Ground - "Have fun, Daniel." But as I said, I didn't care for her much there, because of what I perceived of her from here. So I'm looking forward to watching it again when we Redial S5!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, YES. One of my biggest buttons in fanfic is competent, intelligent personnel at the SGC - not only SG-1, but other SG team and supporting crew and smart doctors outside Janet and good technicians and so on. SGC should have the best and the best and I want to see that competence shine.

I mean, is there anyone who doesn't adore Dave Dixon and SG-13?

"Doctor Jackson is gonna die when he sees this!"

"What, again?"

:)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

But Martin Lloyd is an alien. I mean, yes, Cassie went through too. :)

True enough that there are people at the Alpha Site. But Hailey getting expelled shouldn't quite equate with the world ending. ;)

Yes, Teal's must have loved that moment!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Bwah! For the win. :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I did like quite a bit of it, yes. And Teal'c is, as ever, First Prime of Pwnage. :D

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

::nods:: I want to see competence. I want the SGC to shine. If these people represent the Tau'ri to the greater galaxy, they should be the best of the best - no Felgers allowed.

It's not so much a problem that she's smarter than Sam - she's smarter AND she's a great pilot AND she's great at physical stuff despite being so short AND she defends the weak AND she gets to stroll through the Gate, when Sam was denied that very opportunity back at the time of the move. So yes, she still hits my Mary Sue vibe. But there's enough here for me to enjoy anyway. :)

[ryf.livejournal.com]

I can't even remember who Felger was right now. I blame that on my selective memory and embarrassment squick, because that sounds painful.

when Sam was denied that very opportunity back at the time of the move

Oh yes, in comparison to Sam she certainly has it easy. Didn't think of it like that till now.

[aelfgyfu_mead]

Glad you like it! I'll use it again! I just pulled the image from a publicity photo I found somewhere on teh Interwebz and cropped it.

I suppose it you went into "Proving Ground" with a negative view of Hailey, that would be a big hindrance. She seems really to have settled down a bit by then, but at the same time she's almost a little...I dunno. She has a little less personality than I expected.

Dang, now I'm thinking we need more Hailey fic, but I think people might shoot me for that. And I have too many WIPs to start another. (I do have two SG-1 WIPs! I included them in my meme post here! I think you've been one of the people gently coercing encouraging me to write more SG-1.)

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Well, I figured Teal'c being sheer awesome was a given :P

(and since "Proving Ground" probably lands in my top 20 - certainly top 30 - favorite episodes, I have hopes of this improving your impression of it! If you pay attention in "Proving Ground" she doesn't hide her prior experience but she doesn't flaunt it either - and she isn't the cadet in charge or even the first of them given a 'gate team, and she handles that with class. I think that speaks volumes to her learning and maturing)

I will "patiently" wait for the Furling Fic whomever writers it!