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Hurray for Teamy Goodness! I wrote down my reactions as I watched, and for the most part, those reactions were good. It does mean, though, that this “review” will be long and rambling and not particularly coherent. Consider yourself warned. :)
The Quest, part 2.
I remember a lot of discussion when The Quest, part 1 aired about how bizarre it was for the team to be so skeptical about the existence of the dragon. When I considered it over the hiatus, though, I decided that the skepticism actually made a lot of sense. After all, they’ve seen so many mythological concepts translated into technology. Thor’s Hammer is pretty obvious, of course. Super-strength is derived from the symbiote. The ability to disappear? Ring platforms. Immortality? The sarcophagus. Casting lightning bolts could be the hand device or staff weapons, Valkyries could be
The confrontation with the dragon made no sense. There was an exit? A way in equals a way out, to paraphrase Terry Pratchett. So, they could’ve taken the side entrance in the last episode and avoided the whole compassion/wisdom/faith thing?
Why in the world would they be safer in the trees, which are made of wood and highly flammable? Why not stay in the caverns, since stone is a lot more fireproof?
“Perhaps Puff.” I really, really love you, Teal’c. :) But even as part of me ladored Teal’c’s wordless refusal to allow Mitchell to take the risk, another part of me was saddened at yet another proof that no one on SG-1 really thinks of Mitchell as their leader. Teal’c doesn’t listen, Vala doesn’t listen, Daniel doesn’t listen… I admit that swallowing the C4 was funny (although the dragon didn’t flame why?), but other than that? “Good, get rid of the dragon. On with the episode.”
Ba’al was lying. Of course he was. I despise the way Ba’al is portrayed in this episode, but I’m going to try and do a separate meta post for that tonight, because it’s symptomatic of a larger problem. But they kept posing the team with Ba’al and Adria behind them. It made me grit my teeth, because, uh, guys? Hello? Villains are not allowed to stay unguarded on your six.
Ah, forget all that, and let’s get to the good stuff!
The transportation from one planet to the next was seriously fun. Wonderful to get something actually new for a change! And how interesting that while Adria is left behind, Ba’al is not. Does that suggest that when Morgan le Fay set this all up, the Goa’uld were not yet a danger in the galaxy?
Sam looked particularly beautiful in the shot when she’s staring at Merlin’s stasis chamber and says, “I think I know.” I just had to say that. :) Although I do wish Daniel would pronounce “Myrddin” as “Meer-thyn.”
“How do we get him out?” “I have no idea.” Loved that. It’s always been one of my favorite Daniel quotes. Such a delight to hear it again!
Whee! An Ancient repository thingy! This keeps getting better and better. Jack stopped Daniel twice before, but he’s not there to do it now, and who else can possibly stop him? And Vala set it off. Yet Vala has the protein marker, and Teal’c couldn’t trigger it back in The Fifth Race, and they assumed it was bcause of Junior – which would contradict my speculation as to why Ba’al made it through and Adria didn’t. Er. Getting a bit tied up in knots, here. Maybe the Ancient gene triggers it? They doesn’t explain Vala, though.
Note that again it’s Sam giving orders, not Mitchell. On the other hand, despite my unhappiness with Ba’al himself, Teal’c with Ba’al is absolute solid gold.
Okay, so Merlin confuses the team with the people he knew in Arthur’s time. Daniel as Galahad actually fits, sort of. I can even see some parallels with Mitchell as Percival. Ba’al as Mordred is more of a generic comparison, but I can deal with it. But Sam as Guinevere was “huh?” They’re both female. It sort of ends there. But still, more echoes of old episodes! At least, unlike Ernest in Torment of Tantalus, Merlin is clothed when he starts hugging people. :)
Another old-episode-feel, as Daniel is up-front with a potential ally about who they are and aren’t and what they need – Thor’s Chariot, this time. I do love you, Daniel.
Adria as petulant brat actually works, I think. After all, she’s… what? Six months old or so? With her followers worshipping her and obeying her every whim, and no one actually saying “no” except for Vala and Daniel? But noooo! Don’t kill the feisty innkeeper! She blamed everything on SG-1, remember?
YES! Mention of Daniel’s ascension, and someone who knew Oma! Love it, love it.
Hm. Merlin states that the Ori’s need to draw power from the “lowers” is in order to gain enough power for themselves that they can wipe out the Ancients. Is this information we knew before – what the Ori’s motive truly was? Because I don’t remember it. If this is new, I would expect a little more reaction from Daniel and Vala. And if the Ori always intended to come back to our galaxy to take on the Ascended as soon as they’d gained enough energy points, does this mean that Daniel and Vala are not responsible for the genocide in the Milky Way galaxy?
“She must have seen something in you to believe you to be worthy.” Okay, I melted.
Merlin’s interfering! Yay! And huh, neat handgrips for the repository.
Competent, intelligent, realistic Sam! Yes! I’ve missed her.
“Good luck, Doctor Jackson.” Ooooh. Eerie. And yet… Erm. When exactly did Daniel tell him about his Ph.Ds?
Whoa! That’s it? “He’s dead”? No resuscitation attempts, CPR, nothing?
“Yet another reason to mourn his passing.” Did I mention that Teal’c’s dealings with Ba’al are solid gold? Teal’c gets an appallingly few number of lines in most episodes, but he sure knows how to deliver the ones he does have.
Sam’s Earth-bound laptop is compatible with a DHD? Words fail me.
Oooooh, Daniel. Vala still hasn’t quite figured out how far you’ll go in the pursuit of knowledge, has she?
It works for Daniel. Why? He doesn’t have the Ancient gene, does he? Or does he have it by default, since he once Ascended? Or did Merlin program it to work for him?
On Adria: “Leave the men in prostration.” Does this mean that Adria herself, as Orici, is gaining power from their worship, and their devout prayers will actually aid her in her efforts?
Okay, Merlin’s body disappeared. So anything not alive doesn’t get transported, unless they’re holding it? Does that mean they lost their packs on the desert planet?
“How ya doin’, Sunshine?” Awwww. :) Better than “
Okay. So Merlin zapped whatever Daniel would need into the repository, and Daniel got that. And then Daniel has to use the repository to build a new Sangraal. And Daniel is secretly jumping and down and shouting “Wheee!” for all the new knowledge that he’s gained. Because the stuff about other societies Merlin “seeded in the galaxy” must have been a present. It’s not as if he actually needed that part.
Mitchell and Vala’s anxiety were so good. We haven’t seen much of these two together, have we? Vala usually pairs off with Daniel, but they’re quite good together. If TPTB were keeping them apart because they’d been together on a previous show, what a colossal waste of some very good chemistry.
And Adria the petulant brat, again. It does suit her, but it doesn’t make her any more fun to watch.
“Comparing a laptop to a supercomputer.” Yeah. That’s a Goa’uld System Lord talking, can’t you tell? I won’t get that meta done tonight, but I will be posting it tomorrow, I hope. But I did like that he at least bothered to insult Sam. And that she’s getting seriously irritated. Good for her.
“It’s interesting. Jack got healing powers, I guess I got telekinesis.” Hee! Bit smug there, Daniel?
“Trust me, I can handle this.” Ah, Daniel. Sweet sacrificing utterly arrogant Daniel. That’s my boy. :)
“I need your help.” SAM!!! Oh, Sam, I could hug you infinitely for that. That’s the Sam I love: brilliant and determined and actually aware of her limitations.
AND THEN SHE SLUGS HIM. I actually yelled, “Yes!” Hoo boy was he asking for it. Go Sam, go! And Teal’c just stands there looking smug. The teamy goodness in this one just keeps getting better all the time! And then Sam slaps a Palm Pilot (?) into Ba’al’s hands instead of helping him up… Heh.
Okay, that moment when Daniel starts seriously losing it, and cups Vala’s cheek? That tremor I felt the other night, when the show actually aired, must have been all the Daniel/Vala fans squeeing. But with my gen glasses firmly in place, I have no trouble seeing that as friendship.
Eeee! Mitchell called him “Daniel” and snapped him out of it! Does this mean no more
And then… Oh. First time ever I could seriously believe that Cameron Mitchell is truly the leader of SG-1. That furious scuffle, and that speech to Vala about what it means to be a team member was amazingly powerful. “The hard part about being part of this team is not risking your own life. It’s watching your friends take chances with theirs. Congratulations. Now you really are one of us.” Wow. And I say, yet again, that they should have Vala and Mitchell interact a lot more often; these two actors play off each other superbly.
So Sam and Ba’al break the programming (with a superb snark from Teal’c. Teal’c!), but it’s too late: here comes Adria. And Daniel… senses this? Huh.
(I miss Teal’c’s staff weapon like crazy. The P-90 just isn’t the same.)
It’s amazing how vulnerable a person is when they first come through the Gate, isn’t it?
Ba’al tries to run – “I’ll go get help,” shyeah, right – and gets hit. Are those the Ori zats, or the Ori equivalents of staff weapons? Is he unconscious or dead? I’m assuming the former, since Adria surely wouldn’t want her soldiers indiscriminately killing – she needs Daniel, at least, alive. She’s said so repeatedly.
Whoa: Daniel and Adria confrontation! “You’re too late?” It seems to me that Adria’s right, and he isn’t finished quite yet. But it looks like Daniel meant he was capable of fighting back, which he couldn’t before, because – whoa. Maternal Instinct right there. Looks like Daniel was right to be smug about the telekinesis. That was just fantastic to see Daniel doing that, and for the sake of his friends. It’s extremely creepy to have Adria almost vamping at Daniel afterward, though. Eurgh.
And ouch. First real Daniel whumping since early S9. (I kept expecting Son-of-Anubis whose name I can’t remember to personally whump Daniel in Prototype, and was seriously surprised when it didn’t happen at all.) Vala desperately trying to stop Adria. “We’re not leaving you here!” from Sam. And Mitchell dragging Vala with him. Pure Daniel, this: saving SG-1, getting them to safety before he collapses. And then he’s trapped.
When Adria made off with Daniel, did she take Ba’al, too? Or is he actually dead?
Such beautiful teamy goodness in the tag of the episode. And Mitchell refers to him as Daniel again, which means I can seriously hope it will stay that way for the rest of the season, right? Loved the team’s anxiety and refusal to give up… Although poor Daniel doesn’t look like he’s having a very good time.
He really lost all of Merlin’s knowledge? I seriously hope he’s lying, there, because if it’s true, TPTB just gave us another spectacular failure. Please, let there be something good to pull out of this!
This should have been the mid-season cliffhanger, not part 1. The cliffhanger at the end of this episode – Daniel captured, no way to track him, the team frantic to find him – that’s a whole lot more suspenseful than a bat on steroids blowing flame. This was full of fantastic teamy goodness, and even though it was a Daniel-centric ep, everyone had a serious chance to shine.
“Now, that’s what I’m talkin’ about.” I know I'll be rewatching this one, and I haven't enjoyed an ep enough to do that since Pegasus Project. Bring on the next episode!
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I'm so close to catching up to you guys. Guh!
Glad to see you are apparently liking it though - makes me even more excited for when I get there.
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Hey, this isn't the first time we've seen something like that. I figure that after 10 years, they've figured out a basic way to make them cross-compatible (Carter's laptop being programmed in Ancient or something, I don't know *g*).
t works for Daniel. Why? He doesn’t have the Ancient gene, does he? Or does he have it by default, since he once Ascended?
That's what I imagined. Actually--I found myself wondering if Oma did that to him on purpose, knowing he would eventually reach this point. I came away from this episode wanting to write Oma-fic, which is new to me.
Oh. First time ever I could seriously believe that Cameron Mitchell is truly the leader of SG-1. That furious scuffle, and that speech to Vala about what it means to be a team member was amazingly powerful. “The hard part about being part of this team is not risking your own life. It’s watching your friends take chances with theirs. Congratulations. Now you really are one of us.” Wow
WORD. That killed me dead.
He really lost all of Merlin’s knowledge? I seriously hope he’s lying
As Adria pointed out, it would be a sensible lie to tell. I'm not buying it as truth, yet, because it frankly doesn't make sense (unless he *did* finish the Sangraal, which again I don't think happened).
For the first time since I started watching post-Jack SG-1, I felt like I was actually watching the show I love. Teamy goodness, yes, and good use of previous stories and lovely, lovely Daniel-whumping. *hugs Daniel8
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Oh, sure it is. Remember the DHDs are Ancient technology- we have numerous examples of interfacing Earth tech with Ancient. Sam interfaces a laptop to the Ancient weapon on Dakara in Reckoning. She interfaces a laptop to a DHD in Avenger 2.0. She interfaces a laptop to ..er, okay, to something later in S10.. Anyway, we've established ages ago that we can exchange data with Ancient devices. Remember, we have a computer at the SGC that *replaces* a DHD. And gets a datastream from the gate. (They talk about it in Red Sky and 48 Hours.) They also use laptops to interface to Ancient equipment in Atlantis all the time.
Basically, they must have a converter somewhere that takes impulses from the Ancient equipment and turns them into electronic signals that are interpreted by computer software into something that we can understand.
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From the look of all the pretty crystals, not to mention the extreme stability and long life of Ancient systems, my guess is that they use an optical system, which could be converted to electrical signals by means of Science!(tm).
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But optical computers aren't that science-fictional- there are some lab prototypes working now, so I suspect we'll see commercial applications not too many years down the road. And of course we already use fiberoptic cable for long distance data transmission- there's tons of the stuff in the bed of the Atlantic- not to mention it's replacing wire systems for high speed data and TV, so converting optical signals to electronic and back is already a reality.
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(What's the etymology for "handwaving"? "You don't need to see his identification" and "These aren't the droids you're looking for"?)
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No idea on the etymology for handwaving.
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There is a HUGE difference between a roomful of computers replacing the DHD on Earth and having a casual interface with a DHD and an Ancient obelisk that she's never seen before. I wouldn't know about Atlantis.
I accept that it makes sense - hey, didn't Sam somehow manage to link up to the Ori's ship interface in the first half of the season, too? - but there was something too overly casual about it for me this time. I'll watch the episode two or three times more, and probably get over it. :)
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... I've always wondered why SG-1 hasn't tried out the gene therapy, actually.
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There's a "virtual 7th season"? Gen fic I don't know about?
WHERE WHERE WHERE??? :)
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When I get home I'll look and see if I bookmarked it.I'm awful about remembering names and authors of things - but I'm pretty sure it was one of a series. ::pause while Redbyrd turns internet upside down and shakes hard::.Okay, there it is! Virtual Season 9 is the one I was thinking of. Episode 5 is the fic where members of SG-1 try to take the gene therapy. The link to the whole series is here (http://www.vs9.jackfic.com/episodes.htm). (http://www.vs9.jackfic.com/episodes/vs9_5.htm)
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Woo and hoo! Safely bookmarked. Admittedly, I much prefer Colonel Jack to General Jack, but I quite understand the desire not to have to give up on Jack altogether. Thanks for the link! I'll even some time to read. Somehow. :)
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... Do you not watch Atlantis? I have this vague recollection of reading someone on my friends list simply doesn't. Was, uh, that you?
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I know, but they're so... casual about it. I remember Sam having to work to make the connections on previous occasions. Although I suppose she might have it down pat by now.
I found myself wondering if Oma did that to him on purpose, knowing he would eventually reach this point.
Speculation on the Ancients and their motives is such fun, isn't it? Do they see events through time? Do they know what's going to happen? Which doesn't explain why Oma didn't know that Anubis was going to betray her...
For the first time since I started watching post-Jack SG-1, I felt like I was actually watching the show I love.
For me, it's the first time since mid S7, with the exception of Lost City and Reckoning, that I really felt the Teamy Goodness love. And the Daniel love, too. Mustn't forget that. :)
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I loved the shades of Maternal Instinct with Daniel kicking a** and taking names with the lightning.
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Yes, it was Daniel who activated the repository in Lost City by getting close enough. It's very contradictory. I don't see how Merlin's could be an "older" version, though; Arthurian legend comes loooooong after Ra left Earth, so the Goa'uld were most definitely a threat at the time.
I look forward to reading your essay on the repositories when it's through! I would love to get some coherency. :)
And, yeah. Daniel in Maternal Instinct mode was superb!
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I think the other tests shut off when the dragon came up, so they went out the way they came in...or else Puff revealed another side chamber that looped around (remember Vala was trying to decide Right or Left at one point).
I had the same thought about the woods though. "Let's go run and hide amongst highly flammable objects!"
And how interesting that while Adria is left behind, Ba’al is not. Does that suggest that when Morgan le Fay set this all up, the Goa’uld were not yet a danger in the galaxy?
They do address this. "I don't know, it let him in." I don't think Morgan had the Goa'uld in mind." Well it's dialogue to that effect. I'm too lazy to go look at the transcript.
Whee! An Ancient repository thingy! This keeps getting better and better. Jack stopped Daniel twice before, but he’s not there to do it now, and who else can possibly stop him? And Vala set it off.
I never thought about the issue with Vala. But was it Sam or Daniel that set it off in Lost City? I'm not sure you needed the Ancient gene to actually activate it. The one in The Fifth Race episode, post the great alliance (since they knew the Asgard) may have Goa'uld protection that Morgan and Merlin's Repository (with cool handholds) doesn't. They never actually explained that that was why Jack activated it, or why Teal'c didn't. Jack's gene may have just allowed him to process the info.
I'm getting too thinky. Moving on.
I loved the knights comparison. I don't quite get Carter as Guinevere, though technically I think Merlin was just going off physical comparisons, considering Mitchell "does look like Percival."
Teal'c is totally Sir Bors though.
This was my favorite Adria episode. She balances religious leader and adult-child pretty well.
Is this information we knew before – what the Ori’s motive truly was?
Yeah, it's a combination of what Daniel learned from the Doci in "Origin" about wiping out the "evil" Ancients and what Orlin explained in Fourth Horseman.
Huh. I just figured he'd heard someone call Daniel that, but with Ba'al mute...um, I wonder who? Merlin DID retain his ascended powers though. That's why the Others got all pissed about him.
Whoa! That’s it? “He’s dead”? No resuscitation attempts, CPR, nothing?
Personally I was just amused Daniel reached under the beard to check his pulse.
Sam’s Earth-bound laptop is compatible with a DHD? Words fail me.
Well, Felger's was back in Avenger. She's probably got an expansion pack since Torment of Tantalus. Hee hee.
On Adria: “Leave the men in prostration.” Does this mean that Adria herself, as Orici, is gaining power from their worship, and their devout prayers will actually aid her in her efforts?
Oh wow! good point. I just figured it was to get them out of the way, but your theory is intriguing.
Although I've become resigned and even don't mind Mitchell's "Jackson" anymore, that "Daniel" moment was so awesome.
And then… Oh. First time ever I could seriously believe that Cameron Mitchell is truly the leader of SG-1.
I already like Cam. I found this was the moment I accepted Vala as part of SG-1. :-)
I think that Ba'al was unconscious from a stun weapon, but I'm not sure. Eh. There's others. Stupid multi-pack clone plotline. Sorry. Can you tell I'm not the biggest fan of that arc? Heh.
I was wondering about the focus on Vala in the final SGC scene, but (re)watching it now, it makes sense. I had just seen "Counterstrike" earlier, and I realized not only is she worried about Daniel, but she's got added "my daughter is the demon-spawn causing all these problems" guilt. Plus others have pointed out to me Vala's not as used to worrying about other people as the rest of the team. She's also not as used to Daniel's weeble gene (remember Sam in Flesh and Blood, heh).
I loved Quest Part 2. It was awesome Danielness and teamy goodness and YAYYYY!!!!! Glad you liked it too.
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I love you for calling it Puff. :) Could be, I suppose. It annoyed me, although the shot of them running into the sunlight from the cave was quite good.
But was it Sam or Daniel that set it off in Lost City? I'm not sure you needed the Ancient gene to actually activate it. The one in The Fifth Race episode, post the great alliance (since they knew the Asgard) may have Goa'uld protection that Morgan and Merlin's Repository (with cool handholds) doesn't. They never actually explained that that was why Jack activated it, or why Teal'c didn't. Jack's gene may have just allowed him to process the info.
In The Fifth Race, Jack "found" the repository by stepping into the circle inscribed on the floor. Teal'c peered inside and got pretty flashing lights. Jack peered inside and got headclamped, complete with download.
We could hypothesize, I suppose, that it had nothing to do with Goa'uld or otherwise, but that it had been "tuned" to the person who "found" it by stepping into the circle - and that had been Jack. No one else had walked through it before him.
In the Lost City, Daniel "found" it by pressing the right glyphs (or whatever) and "activated" it by getting close enough. Jack, of course, wouldn't let him actually get the download and took it himself.
it's a combination of what Daniel learned from the Doci in "Origin" about wiping out the "evil" Ancients and what Orlin explained in Fourth Horseman
You know S9 ten times better than I do, but... The Doci told him that the Ancients were eeeeevil and that the Ori would rescue the poor denizens of the Milky Way by wiping out the Ancients and, incidentally, making sure everyone worships the Ori. Then Orlin explains that the worship is actually a source of power for them, and that the more people bowing to the Ori, the more energy they gain. Right? But that's not quite the same as what Merlin said: that the reason the Ori seek power in the first place is not for their own satisfaction, but to be strong enough to wipe out the Ancients. We knew the Ori wanted to get rid of the Ancients; we knew that they gained power from humans' worship. But that was two separate things. I don't think we knew that all along, even before Daniel tripped into Celestus, the Ori planned to gain enough power through worship to take on the Ancients. I'm pretty sure the motivation part is new. You'll correct me if I'm wrong, I hope!
that "Daniel" moment was so awesome.
Yes! And we got two of them! I so hope it will "Daniel" from now on.
Stupid multi-pack clone plotline. Sorry. Can you tell I'm not the biggest fan of that arc? Heh.
Oh, I despise it. Seriously, I can't stand it. I just posted a rather long rant on the subject. :)
This episode was seriously wonderful. I hope the rest of the season will be this good!
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But that's not quite the same as what Merlin said: that the reason the Ori seek power in the first place is not for their own satisfaction, but to be strong enough to wipe out the Ancients. We knew the Ori wanted to get rid of the Ancients; we knew that they gained power from humans' worship. But that was two separate things
Well, the Ori and Ancients are enemies. While the Others like to go lalalala and ignore their cousins (Merlin excepted), the Ori are greedy and want to dominate the lowers and the galaxies all by themselves. I didn't see it as a big stretch from using lowers' worship to make them more powerful to using their added power juice and knock out those silly evil pests, the Alterans/Ancients/Others (and can I say the inability for TPTB to make up their minds on a name for them is kinda annoying?)
Plus Merlin's on a bit of Don Quixote crusade about the Ori, so he would see them as more of a direct threat than some of the Others (which is why Ganos Lal went after him, and then eventually came around).
The Ori didn't know the Milky Way existed until Daniel and Vala showed up, so the fact that there are other lowers under the protection of the Ancients would be seen as a real threat to the Ori. I guess the logic leap Merlin made that the Ori were gathering power to knock out the Ancients wasn't as jolting to me as it ended up being to you. It was like Daniel warned Morgan in "Pegasus Project" [very paraphrased]: When they're done with us, they're going to come after you. Of course I won't care because by that point I'll be dead [again!], but you and the Others should.
I'll have to go read your six pack of Ba'al rant now.
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I do disagree with you about this, though: The Ori didn't know the Milky Way existed until Daniel and Vala showed up
Surely they knew it existed! What they didn't seem to know was that it was populated by "lowers" who could be used as insta-batteries. Am I getting this right? Have I mentioned that one of the things I hate about S9-10 is that Daniel is essentially an accessory to genocide on a horrific scale? And that it's basically Vala's fault, yet we're supposed to like her anyway?
I'll have to go read your six pack of Ba'al rant now.
Oh, I LOVE that. "Six pack of Ba'al"!! Is that your own invention? And does he come in cheap cans or more expensive bottles? :)
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Have I mentioned that one of the things I hate about S9-10 is that Daniel is essentially an accessory to genocide on a horrific scale? And that it's basically Vala's fault, yet we're supposed to like her anyway?
Hmm...I don't think I have the stamina to touch that topic with you today. I know a few people who agree with you though.
You like the silly things, for some odd reason. ;)
Wait a minute. What are you saying, hmm? ;-)
Oh, I LOVE that. "Six pack of Ba'al"!! Is that your own invention? And does he come in cheap cans or more expensive bottles? :)
I've been saying it since I watched EDM (I just tracked back on TWoP and the first usage is me Sept 2005, so probably I came up with myself. Cliff Simon's cut figure and the mental image of them all sitting together in those plastic rings just brought it to mind.
The original of course, would remain analogized to an expensive bottle. Heh.
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Hee! Look at it as research, for when you write the actual articles. You are part of that project, aren't you?
I don't think I have the stamina to touch that topic with you today.
No, you're right. The statement badly needs qualifying and was too sweeping, anyway. And it deserves a serious meta discussion of its own. I do wish, though, that we'd been introduced to Vala without the baggage of grand larceny of Prometheus and attempted murder of General Hammond and SG-3. If we'd met Vala first in S9, and the bracelets had been accidental instead of deliberate (or even out of ignorance), and then we had this slow evolution from who she was to what we're supposed to accept she's become...
Still. For another time.
And I have got to edit the post to include your wonderful "six pack of Ba'al," because it is hilarious and deserves the widest possible distribution. :)
And anyway, the original would be the equivalent of Absolute Power!Daniel's $2,000 bottle of champagne. Or at least Ba'al would think so!
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Totally ot, but when's your next canon v fanon thing anyway? Before or after the ficathon thing? Speaking of which, I need to get back to trying to write mine.
Ba'al would definitely put himself in the Dom Perignon camp as opposed to say...a box of wine with a duck on the front. ;-)
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Unless, of course, I put up a smaller canon vs fanon post in the interim. Something a little less controversial. Like exactly how clumsy Daniel isn't, and Jack's non-existent status as 2IC at the SGC (dontcha love all the acronyms on this show? Or should it be acro'nyms?).
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You could do Daniel and his glasses. Heh, or is that part of the clumsy thing?
Oh, I have my own opinion on Jack's role at the SGC, as in he is NOT the 2IC. I'd always scratched my head at that A couple of my military minded friends explained and convinced me that it wouldn't work that way. But that's even vaguey for canon v fanon since it's implied though never stated that Jack is 2IC. They never had an explicit 2IC after whatshisface. Simmons? Er...I should be saving this for your post, right? LOL. Perhaps that isn't such a small topic after all.
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Since this is only my third SG-1 fic, I don't even have a style. It's taken me this long just to get up to the prompt. I'm not quite sure what's going to happen, but Sam and Daniel have done a pretty good job of letting me know what they want so far. :)
I do hope to do a canon vs fanon next week, or week after next at the worst. Glasses, yes, maybe. Definitely the clumsy and the 2IC (I agree with you about that, BTW), and a bit of fanon that I used on an older post that a commenter corrected (bad fignewton! no biscuit!) And maybe the glasses and one other little subject. They're all small fanon bits that don't need a whole post of their own, so they'll be relatively easy to do.
I hope. :)
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Yes, it does. And while I can see where you (and others) are uncomfortable with Vala and the way her character has been developed...I severely disagree with you on the Daniel issue. Or rather, I see absolutely nothing in canon to support such an assumption. Not in any rational way, at least.
If/when you meta, I'll come back to discuss.
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Intelligent discourse and disagreement is a wonderful thing. :)
Maybe it's my dislike for the NID running subplots, but it's all too easy to imagine someone like Kinsey arresting Daniel on such a charge. Eurgh. As you say, we'll save it for if and when I decide to meta that topic.
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Regarding the Ancient depositories- I don't think that they have anti-Goa'uld protection. I think the one in The Fifth Race didn't respond to Teal'c because he doesn't have the ATA gene.
Admittedly I don't have any special support for this theory, except that the timing makes more sense. The Goa'uld have basically been mucking around with humans for only 10,000 years (per the movie). The Ancients were pretty much gone by then- there were a few remnants that came back to Earth around then, but it was past the peak of their civilization. So what's more likely- that they ran around equipping all their abandoned facilies with anti-Goauld devices? Or that the devices- like the ones in Atlantis- always were keyed to the ATA genes.
We have no positive evidence that Daniel, Teal'c and Sam don't have the ATA gene either- except that in 'It's Good To Be King' they had to get Jack to activate the ship. That was S8, remember, and after Daniel had spent a bunch of time around Ancient devices in Antarctica. So if he had the gene, we'd have to assume that *not only* had it never come up in the several episodes where Daniel is arguing that he should go to Atlantis (Rising, Prometheus Unbound, and the S9 opener), that he also failed to use it here. I find that improbable. Remember the gene is rare- finding it in more than one member of SG-1 would actually be a fairly stiff coincidence.
So why can Daniel operate this device? Merlin had to do several things.. he had to have restricted the amount of data being dumped so that it wouldn't overwrite Daniel's brain. He reprogrammed it to do the personality imprint of him. And- since it gave Daniel Ancient-like abilities- clearly it must have mucked with Daniel's genes. I think Merlin gave Daniel the ATA gene along with the rest of the Ancient package, so he could use the device as well as handle the information.
Note the though it has the same interface- the device need not be a repository. We use monitors and keyboards to interface to ATMs, and various kinds of equipment that aren't functional as desktop-type computers. No reason that an Ancient interface has to be a brainsucking repository.
And finally- another item for your Ba'al collection: Satisfying as it was to see Sam deck him? It wasn't realistic. The symbiote makes Ba'al a hell of a lot stronger and faster that she is. Even Teal'c isn't really a match for a Goa'ulded human. Remember that he couldn't overcome Kawalsky in Enemy Within. Hmm- can't offhand come up with another example of humans vs. Goa'uld unarmed, but there must be some.
Anyway- glad you enjoyed. I found bits to like, but I was fairly irritated by the dragon confrontation, and have to work hard to accept the Arthurian themes anyway. (They're historically too late to be believable in the context of the established Goa'uld/Ancient mythology, at least for me.)
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Hee! That must be the answer! :)
I think the one in The Fifth Race didn't respond to Teal'c because he doesn't have the ATA gene.
You're not the first person to use "ATA" and it's driving me crazy that I don't remember ever seeing the term before. Is that what Thor called it in Fragile Balance?
Besides, the respository responded to Daniel in Lost City and to Vala here. Do they have the Ancient gene, too?
I think Merlin gave Daniel the ATA gene along with the rest of the Ancient package, so he could use the device as well as handle the information.
Now, that idea I like. A lot. It makes a lot of sense; he's obviously rewiring parts of Daniel's brain (telekinesis), so why not stick in the gene while he's at it? And, as you say, it might not be a real repository, even though Daniel was pretty much as catatonic afterwards as Jack had been.
Satisfying as it was to see Sam deck him? It wasn't realistic.
Except that it was. Two reasons: First of all, as
Ahem. You may want to look at the separately posted rant. :)
Regarding Teal'c and Kowalsky - I think the Goa'uld enhance a human's strength, but the host's own strength and abilities are going to affect how much the symbiote can accomplish. As you say, Teal'c could barely hold his own with Kawalsky when they fought on the ramp. OTOH, Teal'c had no trouble taking out Zipacna with a single chokehold. I guess Zippy never ate his Wheaties.
I agree that the Arthurian themes don't fit the rest of the timeline. And the dragon annoyed me too, as my post made quite clear. But with this much teamy goodness, I'm willing to be a lot more lenient about the silly bits. :)
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Atlantis. It appears early in the first season- and is actually mentioned in the pilot but I don't think they use the abbreviation (for Ancient Technology Activation, brought to you by the same people who named the GDO and DHD) that they've found a very rare gene to which Ancient tech responds.
Besides, the respository responded to Daniel in Lost City and to Vala here. Do they have the Ancient gene, too?
Respond, yes. Download no. I think it's the difference between opening the car door and having the key to turn in the ignition. The interface is on a motion sensor, but only actually will work for people with the gene.
There's a really lame D&D joke here to do with running the elf over the walls looking for hidden doors, actually...
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And heh on the D&D joke. Those were the days, and I'm not saying how long ago. :)
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Okay, okay. Dragon - when it was over (I loved the whole Teal'c part - stopping Mitchell, throwing the C4 and watching it just sorta go, BOOM, and... nothing, and then double-timing it back to the team, though, that whole part was fun), the rest was so awesome.
I found the Adria thing pretty good, actually. A lot like her character's playing a part - because it's the only thing she knows, does that make sense?
And I thought that too when Merlin says, "Good luck, Dr. Jackson". I mean, he could have told him when telling him all the other stuff, but I prefer thinking it's the same as when he senses Adria dialing in - he's at least mildly telepathic due to the stuff in his head. Yeah, I know. I wish.
I always assumed Sam sat down one day and said, "Okay, I am going to figure out how to hook my laptop up to a DHD and a Goa'uld mothership and whatever else I can think of." I mean, people do it all the time, actually. I think.
When Daniel was saying what Merlin gave him, I remember thinking, "That's... a lot." Makes you wonder just how much Merlin knew that's lost.
And when Daniel just came FLYING out of the cave, just... "omg, DANIEL! *sniff*"
I totally agree with everything you just said. This was such a great episode, overall.
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I understand what you're saying about Adria - she's playacting because she knows nothing else. I can accept that. But it's not all that fun for me to watch.
I always assumed Sam sat down one day and said, "Okay, I am going to figure out how to hook my laptop up to a DHD and a Goa'uld mothership and whatever else I can think of."
Hee! She would, wouldn't she? I do love her when she's portrayed as she was in this ep.
Poor Daniel, yes. But GREAT ep. :)
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About the exit, it has to be something that opens up later. As in sealed off, then folks kind of get herded out to the dragon challenge bit.
Trees = safe is actually something I buy for folks used to dealing with aircraft (not dragons). Besides, even if the dragon crisps treetops that's not your skin burning and therefore plenty of time to run away. Also, typically trees mean some kind of water likely. Those looked like very green trees, not dry going to go up with a match.
>>Does that suggest that when Morgan le Fay set this all up, the Goa’uld >>were not yet a danger in the galaxy?
Yes, of course. At least not the danger Morgan was worried about.
As to the sort of but not Ancient repository--it's not really a face sucker. Doesn't clamp onto you. Also, Teal'c couldn't trigger the other one when he looked into it--Vala didn't look into it. Makes sense it might have a proximity sensor. Also, back then Teal'c had a symbiote--which is what probably made it not work (not the protien marker). The logic for this is that Jack has the protien marker the second time he gets his head 'redecorated' (love Cam for that one).
Finally, as to the team not listening to Cam, I thought this really showed how they've kind of figured out how to make this work. Cam's not so much the leader ala Jack, he's more den-mother, worrier, cheerleader, and anything else the others need. Teal'c has figured out how to check Cam's more reckless impulses (the guy is worse than Daniel about that). And it seems to me these guys all mesh--they're all pros and to have Cam try to lead them the way Jack did would just create a lot of bad feelings because Daniel, Sam and Teal'c have been doing this a long time.
And I just loved Sam decking Baal -- I also buy it in that she's got a couple things on her edge. All she has to to is get him in the right spot to catch him enough off balance to send him down. Bet she has enough stuff left over from Jolinar, too--maybe she knows Baal is pretty much a whimp with a glass jaw (do we ever see him go macho strong--I don't think so. He's always too much the pretty boy).
So I'm buying that one to take home. It was all pretty much yeah in my book--and plenty of wonderful, stubborn Daniel, and priceless looks from Teal'c.
Re: More yeah
"Lead" or "leave" shouldn't matter, I think. She was giving them instructions to do until they were ready to leave for the next planet. That's actually confirmed when she figures it out and orders her Prior to get the men, because they're leaving.
I love your observation about Air Force officers, used to aircraft, associating treecover as safety! Brilliant. And yes, trees might take a bit longer to burn, but... still. Not exactly as safe as they seemed to think.
Good point that a protein marker might not be enough to stop the repository from working, but a symbiote probably would.
All she has to to is get him in the right spot to catch him enough off balance to send him down. Bet she has enough stuff left over from Jolinar, too
While I don't think there's ever been any suggestion that Sam has enhanced strength because she's a former host, I would strongly agree with your first point. It's not only strength that's needed; you need ability and knowledge, too, and Sam has got that in spades.
Wonderful, stubborn Daniel, indeed! Just the way we love him. And yes, Teal'c was fantastic. :)