Redial the Gate squee: Enigma

[fignewton]

Some random thoughts on Enigma, because redial_the_gate goes live with the recap sometime tonight:

"No argument from me - wait, what's that?" <= Please note Daniel's idea of "no argument."

"This one's had it!" Ah, Sam, that's the sensitive cultural expert speaking... :)

Such love for early SG-1, when Hammond proudly compliments SG-1 for doing nothing more than saving people. Happy sigh.

I adore Omoc. He's unquestionably a good guy, but largely unlikeable with no social graces whatsoever. In short, he's real.

Daniel drinks more coffee in this episode than any other. Tollans, evidently, make him thirsty.

The female SF from Hathor is quite prominent in this one! Sadly, I don't think we ever see her again. ::mutters:: Bet Maybourne fired her, the rat.

Love the Sam and Daniel banter in the Gateroom. "New toy?" "One of them keeps asking a lot of questions about you." And the control room later, heh. "Whoops."

I loved Sam and Jack and Hammond honoring Tuplo by wearing their dress blues. And Tuplo took Omoc's rudeness with remarkable graciousness, which just goes to show that primitives are capable of class. In fact, we got a lot of dress blues this episode. Bonus!

Considering the VIP room that Hathor got, couldn't they find something a little nice than metal bunks for the Tollan?

I have an incredible fondness for young!Walter with hair.

Maybourne is a sleaze. I do not comprehend why so many people like him, I really don't. Yes, I very much enjoy the sheer antagnosim between Jack and Maybourne, and it's right up front from the very beginning - but like Maybourne? No way.

Hammond, on the other hand, rocks. And his ploy with the quarantine is exactly the kind of thing we should have seen from the entire SGC during Chain Reaction, but sadly didn't.

I love Teal'c's passion on behalf of the Tollan. He's been there. He suffered with Kennedy. He knows exactly what the NID are capable of doing.

"You know, the Pentagon, Intelligence, that I can understand. But the President? I voted for him!" Hee! Daniel's righteous indignation makes me giggle. This is the only kind of politics that gets a pass in my personal fandom, thank you.

Daniel the civilian as secret weapon. Oh, I love it. His ability to inspire trust is one of his absolute greatest assets. Omoc was actually willing to explain something to him, even if it was totally over Daniel's head.

Narim is one of the nicest guys that fell for Sam, isn't he? Although the slightly stalkerish thing in S5 about using her voice for his home's audio system makes it kinda borderline.

Daniel and Teal'c, civilians, defying the NID. Oh, I love them. Daniel snarking wordlessly at Maybourne - huh? what'd you say? - is absolutely squeeful, every time.

I love Lya. I love her face when she sees Daniel, and Daniel's when he greets her. In fact, Daniel is particularly beautiful in this episode. I just think that needed to be said.

Maybourne ordered the SFs to fire after the Tollan had already disappeared. In short, he was essentially telling the men to fire at Daniel and Teal'c, although admittedly Teal'c wasn't actually standing in the line of fire the way that Daniel was. Tell me again why people like him?

And now I want someone to write me the AU where the soldiers did fire before Lya vanished their weapons, and both Teal'c and Daniel are hurt or killed, and Lya spirits them away with her to the Nox planet to heal them, and Teal'c and Daniel have all sorts of adventures together before they finally make it back to Earth just in time to rescue Sam and Jack in Antarctica.

Yes. Someone write that. Please? :)

Jack: "I love those people." See? See? It's not just the Asgard! Jack likes Good Guys, that's all.

Jack, again: "You did good, Daniel." All together, now: Awwwww. :)

I always did wonder, though, why all four of them were staring at an inactive Stargate at the end.

Comments

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

I *love* Daniel's "whoops!" when he walks in on Sam and Narim so much. Cutest thing ever. (and he so doesn't know what to do - whether to hang around or go away or cover his eyes or what). Oh, young Daniel.

I think my thing with Maybourne is...I don't like him in the sense of wanting to get to know him or thinking anyone should ever turn their backs on him or anything. But I do think that of the Earth characters of his type (Simmons, Kinsey, Maybourne, um, others?) he's the most interesting. Though, I will also admit I started finding him interesting in "Shades of Grey" and he didn't start really growing on me as a character-of-interest until after he got put in jail for the Russian thing.

I think he's...more faceted than the other characters (of his type) and almost as likely to do something to help someone as he is to not and I think he did get to evolve and change and learn (some) and I like seeing that - seeing a character learn and develop and be impacted by those around him. I admit I also am one of those who enjoys the Maybourne-Jack banter.

In a lot of ways he is doing what he thinks he has to in order to protect Earth (and, after "Shades of Grey," himself) and it's an interesting contrast to the near-altruism we get of the team.

Am I making any sense? I shouldn't be trying to explain this stuff this much past my bedtime.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I can accept that you find him an interesting character, yes. But there are people out there who actively like him, and I just... my mind goes blank. As a foil for our characters, particularly Jack, he's wonderful. But redeemable? No. He's gone way too far.

a lot of ways he is doing what he thinks he has to in order to protect Earth (and, after "Shades of Grey," himself)

It's all himself once he goes rogue, which is more or less after Touchstone. By SoG, he's running his own operation, and he's in it exclusively for himself.

And that backsplashes onto his motives from before. If this is what he turned out to be when he had sufficient power, why did he really order those solidiers to fire on an unarmed civilian and plan to let Teal'c die in agony?

Can't. stand. him.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

I like him more than I like Kinsey and Simmons and the other one...all of whom I can't stand seeing on screen. Maybourne I at least often enjoy watching. I find him more redeemable than the others (I think...okay, Maybourne looks out for himself first and foremost, yes. But if he can help someone he's deemed worth helping without hurting himself, he will. And if he can get his way without harming people, he will (I'm talking later Maybourne, who has learned and grown and evolved, which I appreciate). Also, I firmly believe Maybourne usually did stuff he honestly thought was necessary to keep Earth (and himself) safe. Unlike Kinsey who is happy to risk destroying Earth for his own political gain).

In my mind, this makes him more likeable than the others, who seem to exist purely to get in SG-1 and SGC's way as much as possible.

I agree Maybourne, at times, went too far, but I do think he's learned and stepped back a bit and, well, I have to give him credit for that.

I didn't get the impression that his SoG operation was for himself. I saw it as protecting Earth the way he thought it needed protecting.

But you're free to not stand him. I agree he's reprehensible, I just like him best of the Earth villains we're given. (sortof like Apophis being an interesting villain to watch and the six-pack of Ba'als being annoying)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Maybourne I at least often enjoy watching.

The actor is unquestionably good. I wouldn't seethe so much if he didn't play the part so well. :)

I just like him best of the Earth villains we're given.

Fair enough. I wish we didn't have Earth villains, per se, but that's another issue entirely.

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

Hi! Me re-rereading Maybourne meta for a story...

I'm interested by this: once he goes rogue, which is more or less after Touchstone

Huh. Let me run something by you- I've always had the impression that Maybourne doesn't go rogue until after Watergate. No, no..wait for it.

See, my theory is, after he gets outed in Shades of Grey, he's no longer *officially* NID, moreover the NID is stuck without a Stargate, quite possibly with people still offworld (it's never addressed). But I think Maybourne continues to work for the black ops wing of the NID. The part of the NID that operates in cells and communicates by online bulletin boards (as we hear in Chain Reaction), not the kind with DC offices, like Barrett.

When the Russians retrieve the Stargate in early S4, now all of a sudden, the NID has a way to get back in the game. So Maybourne 'sells' them the secrets of how to use the gate, and enough information to get them going, and who knows, maybe some of the 'Russian' teams are NID? Or at least the NID has access to offworld sources of information, and can keep trying to get access to offworld tech.

But then there's Watergate, and Maybourne winds up arrested, and instead of getting him out (which they surely could have done) the NID leaves him holding the bag. Maybourne is convicted of treason, sent to prison and facing the death penalty. And maybe the NID figures that it's safer that way, that Maybourne has screwed up and it's better he die. And Maybourne is kind of pissed about that.

But he doesn't get executed for treason, thanks to Jack getting him out in Chain Reaction. And Maybourne (not entirely altruistically) helps Jack get the information he needs to blackmail Kinsey and put Jack and Hammond back in charge of the SGC, as well as blackmail Kinsey into getting Maybourne transferred to a place he can escape from. But after this, Maybourne is rogue for real.

Anyway- that's my working theory (and mostly peripheral to the story).. but, o keen observer of canon- can you poke any holes in this? Anything I've overlooked that shoots my theory down in a shower of purple sparks?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

No purple sparks from my POV, no. :)

I have no trouble with the timeline as you present it, because, my definition of "rogue" is your definition of "shadow NID." Whether he still wears the mask of legitimacy or not, Maybourne is out of the light once he's part of a faction that goes against the rules.

Understand that one of the reasons the character bothers me so much is that I despise the running storyline of conspiracy and everyone-but-the-SGC-itself-are-bad-guys. I loved enthusiastic Reynolds in Area 51 in Touchstone - that's what the NID should have been. Reducing the NID to cutout "we'll do what we want and we've above the law" was so stupid.

So, and so. The storyline in Touchstone suggests that Maybourne had direct orders to go ahead with explorations off-world. Once that got shut down, though, a faction of the NID, headed by Maybourne or not, decided it wasn't fair that they didn't get to play with the cool toys with impunity any more, and they were going to get hold of stuff no matter what. That's my definition of rogue here, and whether or not Maybourne had official unofficial :) backing from the shadow NID or not, he was going against official orders and working behind the backs of those who had the right to give the orders in the first place.

The NID became such a caricature that we're expected to believe that there's ONE decent guy working there by S6. I mean, I like Barrett and all, but come on. And, of course, the writers were so enamored of having their conspiracy bad guys that they had to go and invent the Trust, which also seemed able to operate with unlimited funds and impunity.

Come to think of it, a lot of my dislike for Maybourne comes from what he represents. Not all of it, though. Bane and Enigma, and IGTBK and even Paradise Lost and every other ep he shows up in put him solidly in the "slimeball" category for me. :)

I'll say again that it's not dislike for the actor, because anyone who can bother me so much has got to be good at what he's doing! But the character? Seriously. Can't stand him.

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

See, part of what I need to explain is: how did the NID go so wrong? - because I totally agree, there has to be a core legitimate organization, and the part that operates cells in the US.. that *has* to be some kind of independent or semi-independent operation. I'm picturing it as being at first just another alphabet agency. And a bunch of spook types set up a few cells to ensure deniability for some stuff they shouldn't have been doing anyway. And that part grows, because it's too useful to have people you don't have to be accountable for. And so it operates semi-officially for a while, but the stuff it gets into is darker and darker. And then the Stargate comes along... and I have to figure out how the NID gets to deciding to run their own parallel program and where Maybourne fits. (Mainly because without that background, I'm going to have trouble making his actions consistent.) I really like the idea mentioned by someone (Random?) that he was the kind of guy who got by on charm for his whole life, and never had a lot of scruples. It actually kind of explains his appeal to fans- they fall for the charm and don't see the lack of moral fibre. Huh. Have you ever read the Flashman books, by any chance? That might be a parallel I can use.

(And did you notice that the Alt-Maybourne died horribly in Rearranging Fate, and pretty much no one cared...? *g*)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

That's what bothers me most, I think: there is no core organization. We're expected to accept that the NID is corrupt from the inside out, able to violate the law with impunity because political secrest and connections make them above the law. We meet exactly two good guys via the NID: Reynolds and Barrett. And I'm sorry, but that's utterly ridiculous.

I hate that, because it just turns what ought to be a fascinating, legitimate sidestory into a tiresome, one-note conspiracy plot. (Perhaps I should mention that the X-Files never ever remotely interested me...) If Area 51 would have been what we saw hints of in Touchstone - a place where off-world tech was studied and refined, a place where the medicines and plants the teams brought from off-world were examined for on-world applications, a place that could have been the source for new gadgets intead of making poor Sam suddenly acquire expertise in every single technological field - that would've been fantastic. Sadly, it would also have required intelligent writing.

I wish I could help you find some consistency in Maybourne's actions, other than "I'll do whatever is most advantageous to me personally." I do agree that Maybourne has charm when he bothers to turn it on, but it's the kind of charm that's smarmy (not in the fanfic definition, but the dictionary one). Sorry, haven't read Flashman. You did enough to get me utterly hooked on Jasper Fforde. :)

Oh, I noticed AU-Maybourne dying. I was highly amused, in fact. Couldn't happen to a better guy. ;)

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

a place that could have been the source for new gadgets intead of making poor Sam suddenly acquire expertise in every single technological field

When *I'm* world dictator....! *g* Actually in my universe, that's exactly what they're doing, most of the time.

(This turns out to be a longish digression;)
I *used* the Area 51 as R&D center quite early-on to fix an egregious canon bloophole pointed out to me by a reader- that Message in a Bottle has a *huge* factual error in it. Which is that we have SG-1 strolling around on the surface of a planet in what looks like standard NASA spacesuits, and then walking back out of the gate in them. When actually, the real thing weighs about 300 lbs, and astronauts *can't move* in them except in zero g. (Something curiously enough, that they fix in the S10 ep when Sam lands in the docking bay of the Odyssey in a spacesuit and collapses, and people come running over to help her out of the suit.)

See, they way I figured it- the big problem with spacesuits is power. You need a lot of it- batteries to run all the pumps and cooling and stuff. OTOH, with a surfeit of power in a compact form, a ton of those problems go away- you can use the power to not only scrub the CO2, but to split off the carbon and return it to the suit as pure oxygen, which would extend the range of the suits *enormously* (hence 'rebreathing airpacks' in my fanon) - your heating and cooling issues get a lot more tractable...modern or fictional materials can also make the suits lighter.

So- my theory is that they find a couple of worlds where the gates are in vacuum quite early, and since they don't actually have any suits suitable for use in gravity, they turn on Area 51 to do the development. They cannibalize a few staff weapons for the power sources, and SG-1 has to do a bunch of astronaut training to learn to use the new and improved suits... the new suits probably still weigh a hundred pounds or so, but that's actually relatively manageable in normal or lighter gravity. Medieval armor weighs 60-70 lbs, but the way it distributes the weight over the body makes it much easier to move in than you'd expect for the weight.

Really- there is just a ton of background that needs to happen in order to justify some of the stuff we see on screen.

Oh, and you probably would not like the Flashman books. The main character is a scoundrel who lies, cheats, steals and womanizes his way through most of the history of the nineteenth century, somehow managing to come out ahead despite his massive lack of character. It's extremely well written (and quite popular), but I find a little of it goes a long way- I much prefer to read about characters that I can like.

Ah, you've been sucked in by the Fforde? Well, there are worse things. For one thing, he's only written what, seven? books so far. Much worse (or better, depending on your POV) is getting sucked in to an author who's already 50 books ahead of you. :) Or (to choose a non-random example) marrying a guy who has just as many books as you do, only you haven't *read* a lot of them... (Our library catalog is up to over 3900 books, and I've still got three or four bookcases to enter. About half of the library is SF and fantasy.)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, yes!

I have a great icon for fanfic fixing canon, but it's over at my IJ which has more than 15 icons ::sigh:: Here, by ms_semicolon:



A good Area 51 would have filled so many holes. As it is, the eeeevil Area 51 was just the same tiresome plot recycled over and over again.

Love your references to the spacesuits! That never would have occurred to me. It never ceases to amuse me how much research we all do when we're writing fanfic. :)

Oh, I like discovering past prolific authors - it's trying to catch up to prolific current ones that can be alarming!