On Destroyers of Worlds and Gamekeepers

[fignewton]

I missed Prisoners in redial_the_gate last week, and abyssinia4077 will be posting on The Gamekeeper later today. So here's both of them at once.


Prisoners

As myystic pointed out in her recap, Prisoners offers that wonderful cliche - SG-1 in prison, other than being captured by Goa'uld. Besides that, though, it offers us Jack backstory - he was once in prison (and Daniel didn't know about it, which implies that it's something he really doesn't want to talk about). It gives us Teal'c in fierce defense of Daniel, and some great Sam excited-by-tech moments. It gives us another example of one of my favorite Daniel quirks: when his brain is exhausted and/or oxygen-starved, he actually does his best out-of-the-box thinking. But most of all, it offers us Linnea, who is one of the most fascinating antagonists SG-1 ever faced.

I love how creepy Linnea is, on so many levels. Despite her usage of simple terminology, it's clear that she understands technology marvelously - she has that little hand thingy with which she (I think) turned Vishnoor's own attack against him, and later stunned Sam and the medtech. She had no trouble understanding how a computer system works, and manages to hack her way through the SGC's systems with little effort. Then there's her cool self-assessment, as she practically tells Sam that she shouldn't be trusted. Sam interprets her words in the best way possible, but then Sam saw Linnea as a protector, a source of scientific knowledge, and a woman who had fought off male aggressors; it's unfair to expect Sam, in those circumtances, to be more skeptical. Oddly, it's Daniel who suggests the greatest caution - doubly ironic, since he's usually the one to offer the greatest optimism, and he certainly champions Linnea/Kera later on! You do wonder why Linnea healed the blind man. Of course, she had no way of knowing that he could reveal her true identity, but what prompted her to heal him in the first place? The desire to further impress the people who were going to get her out of Hadante? A compulsion to practice her arts, whenever she gets the chance? How much of Linnea's version was truth, compared to what the man told Hammond later? How much of her genocide was intentional, and how much was accidental, and how much was simply the cool calculation of a scientist perfecting her techniques?

(Speaking from the Sam and Daniel friendship aspect,  I adore Sam petting Daniel's hair on the steps of the Stargate.)

Some questions:

From the discussion in front of the Stargate ("Cimmeria is out") it seems as if not every Stargate can go everywhere in the Stargate network. Are there more symbols than fit on a regular Gate, thus causing some Stargates to be inaccessible from others?

Why didn't Daniel point out that while glasses might seem like a weakness in a prison on Earth, there's no way to tell how an alien culture might interpret them? Who knows - maybe some of the natives saw Daniel's glasses as a status symbol, or a mark of power.


The Gamekeeper

Interestingly, the Keeper is never actually called the "Gamekeeper" at all.

More Jack backstory and more Daniel backstory (because he wasn't a tragic enough figure yet, apparently.) More marvelous cementing of the Sam-Daniel and Jack-Teal'c friendships. Tragedy and pathos and agonizing emotionally wonderfully acted and... how stupid is the Keeper, really? (And how old? If he created the "Enviornment," what's been keeping him alive for a millenium?) Why did he deliberately choose the worst possible moments in Jack's and Daniel's lives? Especially as we see how he stacks the deck against them, by changing the rules so that they can't win. If he wanted to tempt them into staying, why didn't he choose happy moments in their lives? We should have seen Daniel back on Abydos, and Jack with Charlie...and speaking of which, does anyone really believe that this botched mission in '82 was Jack's "worst memory," the one he most wanted a chance to relive and fix? How about Charlie? Or even Daniel nearly dying, just a few weeks before this? I have no problem with the Keeper's choice of Daniel's parents' deaths over, say, Sha're's abduction or his failed lecture. OTOH, for someone obviously looking for maximum angst, imagine an endlessly looped replay of the moment when Apophis and Teal'c stepped through the Abydos Stargate. Daniel possibly shooting and killing Teal'c, right then and there? With Teal'c playing himself? Talk about possibilities.

But here we have the Keeper, hoping to keep his new software, as Daniel puts it, endlessly available. Yet he chooses depressing events that the victims would obviously seek to escape, and he fails to keep up even the specter of reality. Even when he tries for greater subtlety, when the team thinks they're back in the SGC, he overplays his hand as Hammond and makes it blindingly obvious what's happening. It doesn't even occur to him to make sure the residents are invisible to SG-1 - their black-robed, brooding presence is more than a little bit of a giveaway. Was this simply because the man never had any need for subtlety before? He had cunning, but no guile?

So many questions... How much were Melburn (sorry, yes, that's the way it's spelled in the credits) and Claire in character? We know that the usage of "Danny" was in character, from Daniel's reaction; but was Claire really so kindly dismissive, and Melburn really so brusque? Would he really order "Jake" to haul his eight-year-old son away? Or was this the Keeper's manipulations? It seems to fit with the same mind that stupidly had Hammond suggest, in a public briefing, that Jack could spend time with Charlie; and it's all in a piece with the mind that had Kawalsky tell Daniel, "Doctor Jackson, I always made you laugh." And when would this be, Kawalsky? When you were busy throwing his suitcase down a sand dune? When you were cursing him out for getting you stranded on Abydos? When he was watching you suffer from being Goa'ulded, and thinking about Sha're undergoing the same torment? Or maybe you're referring to Daniel's hysterical laughter when you claimed, on the way back from Abydos in the movie, that you always knew he'd get you back to Earth.

I want to see an AU with a Keeper with just a little bit more brainpower. One where he learns his lesson and goes for subtle, and the team thinks they're out... but they're not.

Two little observations:

I'm really glad that Sam got this first hint that her mind isn't quite what it once was, before she suffers Jolinar Flashbacks (tm) in next week's Need.

Daniel sneezing into his hand and then shaking it vigorously is just... ew. Daniel, sweetie, you know we love you - but next time, use tissues, okay?

Comments

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

I want to see an AU with a Keeper with just a little bit more brainpower. One where he learns his lesson and goes for subtle, and the team thinks they're out... but they're not.

Oooh, that's a wonderful AU. When are you going to write it? o:-)

I didn't ever figure out why Cimmeria was out. I thought it was just because of not getting to the SGC from there with no GDO's. But you make an interesting point about the Stargates. Huh. Never thought of it that way.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

No more plotbunnies until I finish the next canon vs. fanon AND my sadly languishing crossover, thank you!

I thought it was just because of not getting to the SGC from there with no GDO's.

There's the Sagan box, though. Which is why, I assume, they thought of Cimmeria in the first place.

(And hoo boy, another great AU - they go through to Cimmeria and walk straight into Heru'ur's arms. Imagine not expecting any trouble and finding it in spades!)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I lost track on Hadante being before or after Prisoners for a while.

Oh! I *just* read a story like that...er, sort of. It was an AU (as in using the quantum mirror, not "SG-1 are cowboys"). It's one of the nominees in the fanawards...um, team action adventure category because I've been working my way up from the bottom in SG-1 gen (yes, I know, I never do things in order).

Um..[goes to look up fic]...yep, I was right! Here it is! Mirror, Mirror, the Butterfly's Wing (http://www.jackfic.net/emeraldcity/au/butterfly1.html) by Denise (who I think is also skydiver119, but I'm not sure about that).

BTW, I have a question for you. There's some fics I've come across amongst these nominees and think, oh that'll be cool for stargateficrec, but then I wonder about "influencing the vote" in reccing it before the voting's over. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that since you do a lot of them.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed the first Mirror Mirror story, yes. I was disappointed, though, that the author chose to turn her back on the NID-riddled Earth and return to Daniel's original reality. Honestly, I found the "darker" one (for relatives of dark) so much more interesting! :)

I'm not sure what to tell you about reccing nominated stories. I do know that when I was going through several categories, I would find a fic I've recced and go straight to vote for it, because I knew I loved that one. But you're asking about the other way round, so... hm.

Is it influencing the vote if I mention the bit of art in one of the categories that had me laughing out loud?

My only suggestion, if you specifically want to rec something this month or next, is to rec it without mentioning that it's up for a nomination. Or ask the SFA team (tejas is on it, and she wanders past here pretty often - she might even pipe up with the answer here).

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

I agree, the NID Earth was pretty interesting. I was kinda disappointed Daniel ended up back on the first one too.

I'm not sure what to tell you about reccing nominated stories. I do know that when I was going through several categories, I would find a fic I've recced and go straight to vote for it, because I knew I loved that one. But you're asking about the other way round, so... hm.

Ah, see, I don't have that problem exactly, because I end up seeing fics I've rec'ced and/or nommed up AGAINST each other in categories...or even have discovered new fics I like just as much! Gak!

Overall, what I've seen so far (really only looked through Team Gen to date), I've liked a lot of the stories there and have some tough times voting.

I know it's not against the rules to rec stories per se...so long as you're not pimping for votes for whoever. I just...feel funny about it, so I'll probably stick with rec'cing ones that aren't...or at least ones I haven't *noticed* are among the nominees (I'm known for my short term memory on things like that sometimes).

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. There are definitely a few categories that include multiple favorites of mine. OTOH, if I see a fic that I've often called "one of the five that I want to have with me on a desert island" in a certain category, then, yes, I probably won't look any further! :)

I agree that voting is hard, and a slow process, and I'm very very glad I've got another full month for it. People like you who follow both shows - and multi-shippers who go through every!single!catgory! - have a much harder time of it!

OTOH, I am awed and amazed by the incredible amount of work that the SFA team put into making the process so smooth. Mere coding alone must have represented weeks of work.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

I just *watch* SGA. I'm not in the fandom (thank goodness). On occasion I may read a fic some of our multi-fandom friends say "go read!", but in general, no. So thankfully I can stay away from that "half" of the voting. Monogomous fandomer for me.

And yeah, I *really* feel sympathy for the multi-shippers (and both fandom multishippers). At least the categories are thankfully broken down this year to much more manageable levels. I'm just so excited we've got so *many* gen entries. Whoo hoo!

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

See, I figured that they didn't want to go back to Cimmeria because Teal'c would be zapped away back into the labyrinth. And even though he could get out, it would be a really long tedious hike to get back. (This is before the second Cimmeria ep, right?)

I think you're right that the characterizations were influenced by the Keeper's heavy-handedness. But the original memories are Daniel's (or Jack's), so there is an argument for there having been an element of truth to them.

Some great AU ideas there, however. I'd read 'em!

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Would the Hammer still be in zap mode, though? The power sources might be interconnected - with the Hammer itself destroyed, the obelisk at the Gate might not work, either.

My personal opinion is that the characterization and actions in the first playback were wholly accurate, while the subsequent replays were not. But I do like that it can go either way.

And if my take is the right one, so much for all the Saint Daniel fics that depict his intensely loving parents, rather than fairly obsessed archeologiests who remember to smile vaguely at their son from time to time. Erm.

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

I picture his parents as being fairly obsessed, but well-meaning enough that Daniel wasn't abused or overly neglected. Even quite good parents can be abrupt or distracted, especially if they need to bring the kid along to work. I imagine young Daniel as being good at amusing himself, but definitely trying hard at languages because it comes easily to him, and gets him a lot of positive adult attention.

His parents encourage his interest in their pursuits (because it's a way to relate without taking their heads out of their own research to get down to kid level), and because they're proud of his precocious intelligence.

I do think it likely however, that *Daniel* tends to idealize the years he spent with his parents. Because even very good foster care would not necessarily ease the trauma of losing his parents so young. And of course it would be worse because they traveled and he didn't have other relatives he was close to. (It's part of my own personal canon that Daniel tended to move around a lot in foster care, but that was something where I just had to make a decision.) I also think that Daniel's foster parents had a lot of trouble keeping up with him, which is part of the reason that Daniel is often convinced he's right. He figures out early one that he's smarter than most of the people he knows, and so he tends to discount other input if he thinks he has the right answer.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes, that does more or less fit my idea of the Doctors Jackson - not deliberately unkind in any way, but absent-mindedly treating him like a peer rather than a child, and Daniel straining to please them by reading heiroglyphics and rattling off different languages.

And hoo boy, yes - Daniel would absolutely idealize those first eight years, no matter how happy his time in foster homes might have been.

Daniel is always convinced he's right because let's face it, he usually is... which is why the times he's wrong tend to backfire so spectacularly. :)

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the Hammer might or might not be in zap mode, depending on what you needed in a fic. But I would argue that *they* don't know that. Even if the Hammer doesn't activate on the way out, it *could* be triggered by an incoming wormhole only, so SG-1 wouldn't know for sure that it was off unless they dialed back in and came through and saw if they were scanned again.

In the absence of other information, I'd assume that they don't know for sure.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Come to think of it... if the Hammer was still in zap mode, wouldn't it have zapped Teal'c again on their way back home? It can't only be activated by the Gate itself, or someone would pre-empted Heru'ur by landing ships on Cimmeria a long time ago.

I think the scanner was off, but you're right that we can interpret Daniel's dismissal of Cimmeria either way.

[kalquessa.livejournal.com]

Re. Linnea, I always wished this character had come back in a different way than she did in "Past and Present". The way things with Ke'ra play out, it becomes pretty clear (based on her reactions to regaining Linnea's memories) that Linnea really was a monster (or at least that's how I understood, your mileage may vary). I kind of liked the idea of Linnea as a scientific genius who had more than a little of the psychopath in her, not in terms of "Bwahaha I will kill everyone!!" but more along the lines of "This experiment must be done to further scientific discovery. The fact that lots of people may die is not important in this context." I think she heals the blind man because she can, and because a man who can see is better than a man who cannot, but without any real consideration for the individual in particular. I guess what I'm saying is that I like the idea of ethically-flexible, morally aloof Linnea rather than the Evil Genius version that they seemed to decide on in Season 3.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I think the option of viewing Kera/Linnea through slightly psychotic chemical genius is still possible, despite her fury and rage when she discovered who she was. Don't forget that if Daniel hadn't run back, she would have committed suicide.

I loved the unease from Sam and Janet when Kera calmly announced they would have to try again, when what's-his-name was still lying unconscious on the gurney after the first failure. That's pure Linnea, right there - research and discovery matter, not the paltry human lives that might be affected.

[aelfgyfu_mead]

I'm with you on this, Fig: Kera's first reaction is not to go kill everyone, it's to try to kill herself; that suggests more than just a psychopath, but someone with deep regrets and a more complex personality.

Linnea did choose to heal that man; she's not pure evil, I think. Then again, I find pure evil really dull; I think the Ori (and the Wraith) are problematic villains as a result. What made the Goa'uld interesting for me were the unexpected moments: Apophis's apparent real love for Amaunet (sorry, too rushed to double-check canon spelling on that); the struggles between host and symbiote; the existence of Lord Yu, who isn't a good guy but isn't a simple bad guy either.

I also loved Daniel nearly dying and coming up with the answer.

I had gotten into fanfic before I saw "The Gamekeeper," and I remember reading how Daniel's parents died before I saw it. I ran to Brilliant Husband and said, "Guess how Daniel's parents died? In a tragic museum accident!" and then laughed my head off. I'm not fond of "The Gamekeeper," between their really stupid deaths and Jack's botched accident. (On the other hand, I didn't want to see any more of what happened to Charlie than I'd already seen.)

I've read a few AU versions where the team isn't really out of the VR, and I didn't like any of them; that's probably because I never cared much for the episode in the first place.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Apophis's apparent real love for Amaunet

Oh, yeah. That moment in Secrets was bad enough, but a delirious Apophis in Serpent's Song was downright creepy. And you're right - it made the horror so much greater, especially for Daniel.

I agree that the Jacksons' deaths were incredibly stupid. We're expected to accept that these two people, who have been doing this kind of work all their adult lives, will casually stand underneath a massive styrofoam coverstone without any safeguards in place? OTOH, I'm reminded of the line in katie_m's hilarious Stargate Primer for the Farscape Fan:

Once upon a time, there was a man who had been orphaned at a young age when his parents were crushed by a museum exhibit right in front of him…

No, really.

I'm very sorry to say that this complete lack of self-preservation instincts appears to be genetic, though perhaps in compensation for squishing his parents, the universe has never quite had the heart to make the consequences of his behavior stick.

Heh heh. :)

If these AU versions are gen, could you provide links? I'd be very interested in seeing them.

[aelfgyfu_mead]

Yes! I love katie_m's Primer! That bit is one of my favorites, but there are a lot of other good bits, too.

The "Gamekeeper" AUs I've read were indeed gen, but alas, I cannot find them in a quick search. I thought I'd read a couple at Stargatefan, but they're not there, or at least they're not under "Missing Scenes." A quick Google search was useless. I'll keep an eye out, but I didn't particularly like them, so I made no special effort to remember them. (I should note that it was a case of me being the problem, not them--yeah, kind of like a relationship that doesn't work. I often have trouble getting at all invested in AUs, and I find many of them too dark for my tastes.)

[nomadicwriter]

...does anyone really believe that this botched mission in '82 was Jack's "worst memory," the one he most wanted a chance to relive and fix? How about Charlie? Or even Daniel nearly dying, just a few weeks before this?

I don't think it is supposed to be a worst memory; it's just a tragic memory that makes a suitable 'game'. In both of the scenarios the Gamekeeper uses, Jack and Daniel are trying to avert a tragedy from a position of not being in control: Daniel, obviously, because he's just a kid, and Jack because he's not the CO. They're trying to influence people who won't listen to them.

Charlie's death, in this context, wouldn't be any 'fun' as a scenario, because a big part of the tragedy is that it would have been easy to prevent. Jack had full control of all the variables involved - his house, his gun, the time he returns home - and also the authority to dictate to Charlie. He could have stopped it easily, he just didn't know it was going to happen. So there's none of the frustration factor of trying to control someone else's actions that seems to be a requirement for the Keeper's idea of a 'game'.

...Actually, the 'game' part is worth contemplating for a second - think computer games. Isn't the setup for the scenarios, Jack's particularly, exactly the kind of thing you would have to do in a game? You try, fail, hit restart and try again. If the characters in a computer game with "save the hostages" type missions could feel things and remember from attempt to attempt, the experience for them would be pretty much exactly what it is here for Jack and Daniel. So the watchers' taste in entertainment is really not that outlandish at all; it's only the fact that the line has blurred for them between real people and simulated computer people.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love that video game analogy! And I like the suggestion that the Keeper chose scenarios where Daniel and Jack had to struggle. OTOH, what fun is a video game where it's impossible to win? The Keeper deliberately manipulated reactions so that Daniel and Jack would lose, every time. I can't imagine that would be fun for anybody - not the "characters" OR the "players." The Keeper, though, seemed to be having a great time. He was a bit twisted, apparently. :)

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

Oh, I love that video game analogy! And I like the suggestion that the Keeper chose scenarios where Daniel and Jack had to struggle. OTOH, what fun is a video game where it's impossible to win?

Ah, but if you keep to the video game anaolgy--the toughest thing with a game is to tune the learning curve (I speak as someone who has had to do this).

Too steep a curve, and yes, folks quite. But, too shallow a curve and folks quite there, too. (There was actually a study done once that I read about regarding challenging kids and it's the same thing--make it too easy and kids get bored and quit. Make it too hard and they quit.)

So, my take is that the Keeper's been doing this a long time--meaning he's used to folks with steep learning curves. So he throws in the 'new software' and sets it on max learning curve because that's what his residents need.

It's miscalcuation on his part because he's thinking about his resident's needs, not about the new software refusing to operate (hmmmm... SG-1 as Windows....hmmmmm).

This is also why he wouldn't pick a 'nice' story--as in nice stories are dull, dull, dull. He wants instant drama and impact and POW for his residents--he really isn't caring about the software he's yanked into this.

Notice, too, he doesn't have prior experience with deaing with fresh input--so he's got nothing to help him calibrate it right. So it's not so much dumb as lacking experience that gets him.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Yes, the analogy does keep working nicely, doesn't it? And what you say makes a lot of sense - by now, the residents would be experts and demand proper intensity with lots of WHAMs (as my old fandom called those wrenching, heartbreaking, agonizing moments). Still, the Keeper ought to have recognized, on his second try, that he'd better try to tone things down... but he didn't.

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

That is where you kind of wonder if the Keeper is a person, or a machine. On the one hand, if he's just programming himself, maybe he's not set up to adapt. On the other hand, people can get terribly set in their ways.

But the second try sort of does tone thing down in thet it starts off with him trying to simulate the SGC and encourage Jack and Daniel to go back and 'pick' experiences.

Either way he doens't seem to have much patience for someone who has been around -- maybe he can sense or see the resident's interest level and gets a little pressured when they start losing interest in a scenario?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

A very good question, yes. As I asked in the post - he claims to have created the enviornment. Is he actually 1,000 years old? A consciousness downloaded into an android body, like Harlan? Deluded, even?

Does he have to really please the residents or just keep them occupied? They do believe there's nowhere to go - how much does he really have to keep them happy, when they're literally a captive audience?

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

Maybe he's 'programmed' to do this? Or he wants them occupied so they don't get bored and go looking for the exit (it is easy to find if you poke around), so maybe it's like keeping the cat amused with a toy so it doesn't go poking into the fish tank for the fun of it?

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

Oddly, it's Daniel who suggests the greatest caution - doubly ironic, since he's usually the one to offer the greatest optimism, and he certainly champions Linnea/Kera later on!

Yes, but Daniel can also be the one to offer the worst case scenario -- as in 'The Serpent's Lair' when it's like 'we're blind and we're screwed.' I think sometimes it's more like if everyone's up, he's going to be devil's advocate and do the worst case, and if everyone is dark side, he's going to point out the good side, again just because no one else is bring out that side of things.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I agree with this, actually. Serpent's Lair was a special case, as he was the only one who'd actually lived through the scenario already. But Daniel's objections and protestations, throughout the series, have never seemed (to me) to be a kneejerk devil's advocate reaction. I don't think Daniel automatically takes the other side of any command decision that Jack might make, no matter what.

[randomfreshink.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't think it's kneejerk objections, or that he automatically takes the opposite side on anything -- more like he sees things in kind of a holistic view, and if no one is bring up all sides, then he'll bring up those sides that are being overlooked (as in it really is best to consider all options). So it's not a matter of him being contrary, as him bring into the mix the stuff that's not been mentioned -- I think he very much regards that as part of his job. Bringing things into the light, if you will.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Okay, yes, I'll agree with that. Daniel can step back and see the overall view, and isn't shy about bringing it up - even if it's not nec'ly his preferred POV. On the other hand, he can be delightfully, stubbornly blind at times... :)