Canon vs. Fanon, part 9: "It's just a deep, bleeding gash..."

[fignewton]

I'd originally planned to do Daniel's pre-series history next, but this particular topic has come up over and over again in the comments sections of previous posts, so we're going to tackle this one first.

"It's just a deep, bleeding gash, but it'll be fine."

A common aspect of fanfic – particularly Daniel-whumping ones! – is Daniel's supposed stoicism, where even the worst wounds and injuries are dismissed with the words, "I'm fine." Now, it's certainly true that Daniel makes an effort to understate his condition at times; all the members of SG-1 do it to some degree, and I'll give some examples of that. But fanon has taken that idea and run away with it, warping it to the point where Daniel will always insist – despite suffering from... oh, let's say a punctured lung, three broken fingers, and a compound fracture of the thigh – that he's fine.

So how often does canon Daniel say, "I'm fine," and how often does he actually mean it?

Brief recap: Canon is defined as anything directly shown during Stargate: The Movie or episodes of the show, with show superseding the movie when there's a contradiction. (Jack's son was named Charlie, not Tyler.) Fanon is defined as widely-accepted concepts that appear in fanfic, but do not have any real basis in canon.

If I've missed any canon appearances which support or contradict my analysis, I would greatly appreciate it if you'd point that out in the comments. I haven't included times that Daniel says that he's fine when he actually is healthy – for example, when he recovers in One False Step, or in Abyss, when he reassures Jack in the closing scene – or when he truly believes he's healthy, like in Tin Man or Urgo before the truth is revealed.

Daniel always insists that he's fine, even when he isn't.

Like most fanon tropes, this one does have solid canon basis… Just not as much as a person might think, if they used fanfic as their source instead of the show. Let's list those canon sources and see how they add up.

COTG. Daniel wakes up in the dungeon, after being unconsious for several hours (possibly as many as sixteen or seventeen!). Skaara embraces him and says, "You're okay?" Daniel answers, "I think so," but as Skaara tightens his grip, Daniel coughs and needs to sit down.

Need. When they return from the planet and are being checked in the infirmary, a restless, agitated Daniel swings his legs on a bed and complains, "This is stupid!"

Sam, trying to calm him down, tells him, "Doctor Frasier says your systems are all out of whack."

Daniel snaps, "Well, I feel fine!"

A short time later, after a rather ugly scene in Sam's lab, he tries to resign from the SGC and collapses on Hammond's office floor.

Holiday. Included for the sake of completion. Daniel insists, over and over, that he's fine. Unfortunately, it's Machello who's doing all the talking, not Daniel.

Into the Fire. When Makepeace leads the S&R team to get SG-1 out of Hathor's clutches, Daniel goes down with a piece of shrapnel in the leg during the firefight at the Stargate. When the initial mad scramble has ended, and they're making their way through the Tok'ra tunnels, Makepeace turns to Daniel and asks, "How's the leg? Can you walk?"

Daniel answers with deadpan sarcasm, "It's just a deep, bleeding gash, but it'll be fine."

This one is a classic case, and my personal theory is that most of the "I'm fine" fanon sprang from this quote. I don't have any proof of that, of course, since I didn't even discover Stargate until the summer of 2005. If I'm right, then it's doubly ironic, considering that Daniel was a lot more sarcastic than he was sincere.

Legacy. In the scene in the VIP room, just before Daniel is committed to Mental Health, Daniel insists he's "fine" twice – once when he means it, and once when he doesn't:

During their games of chess, Daniel realizes that he could have checkmated Jack two moves earlier, and comments, "I don’t know what I was thinking."

"Yeah, well, you're a little off," Jack tells him dryly.

In all sincerity, Daniel says, "I don't feel off. I feel – I feel fine. No headaches, no tension… I mean, I feel normal."

They stop playing chess and switch to gin; and suddenly Daniel isn't all that fine any more, as he hears chevrons locking in the cabinet. He takes out the cards, determined to continue as if everything is normal – but as he pulls out the scorepad, and Jack starts cutting the deck of cards, he sees a symbiote crawling up Jack's arm.

Now Daniel is trying not to panic and says, very carefully, "Jack?"

Jack, of course, doesn't know what Daniel thinks he sees, and only answers casually, "Yeah, what?"

Daniel realizes that this, too, must be a hallucination, and tries to dismiss it as, "It's nothing." Only it isn't nothing, not to Daniel, as he watches the symbiote crawl towards Jack's neck.

Jack sees his tension and asks, "You all right?"

And here Daniel is obviously lying as he says, "I'm fine… How are you?" Seconds later, as he "sees" Jack's eyes flash, he can no longer ignore the hallucination – don't forget, it's not that long since he really saw Jack overtaken by a Goa'uld – and he throws himself at Jack, trying to get the symbiote out of his neck before it's too late.

Forever in a Day. Oddly enough, it's Teal'c who pronounces, "Daniel Jackson will be fine." Either he is assuring Jack and Sam that he killed Ammonet before she could zap him fatally, or he is referring to Daniel's forgiveness, which would serve as a clear indication that Daniel will be able to persevere even in the face of his personal tragedy..

Shades of Grey. This one is extremely subjective, so I'm including it only for the sake of completion. When Jack tries to apologize to Daniel for the "no foundation" thing in the final scene of the episode, Daniel shrugs it off as unimportant, with no need to discuss it. Depending on how you interpret Daniel's reactions in that episode – and hoo boy, are there lots of different interpretations out there! – this may qualify as pretending to be fine when he isn't, or it may be that Daniel was actually not distressed by the incident.

Maternal Instinct. Another subjective one. When Oma Desala disappears with (the then unnamed) Shifu, Jack asks Daniel, "You all right?"

Daniel answers, "Yeah." The sincerity of that reply is open to interpretation; include it or not, according to your own opinion of the scene.

Nemesis. Here are classic quotes numbers two and three. Jack walks into the infirmary, where Daniel is recovering from the operation to have his appendix removed. Jack remarks that Janet has said that it will take about a week before Daniel can be released.

Daniel says, "You know, it's funny. After all we've been though these last… few years, it's my appendix that lays me out. But it's not going to be a week. I mean, I feel fine now."

Jack cheerfully takes his word for it and suggests, "You wanna go fishing?"

Daniel actually tries to sit up. "Actually, I wouldn't, uh…" He realizes that he's not quite as "fine" as he claimed to be, but gamely continues. "Well, maybe…" Nope. Not going anywhere. He settles back on the pillow, still wincing, and finishes, "No, you know, I think – I think I will stay here for two or three…" Another wince. "Three days."

Since there is no practical reason whatsoever for Daniel's little attempt at stoicism here, I will cheerfully put this down in the "stupid macho idiot" category and leave it at that. (More on this below.) Because yes, my Daniel Jackson is, on occasion, a stupid male. And I love him despite it. :)

Later, General Hammond finds Daniel sitting in the control room, obviously in pain. He asks, "Doctor Jackson, are you okay?"

Daniel is clearly lying when he answers, "I'm fine."

Hammond gently suggests that he rest in the infirmary, but Daniel only says, "Sir, I know there's no reason for me to be here, but I just… I feel like I should be here. That's not totally true. Actually, I feel like I should be up there with them."

This one really is the ultimate classic "I'm fine," because this is how fanon uses it most often: Daniel dismissing his own injuries in order to either maintain vigil over his teammates or do something to help them.

The Curse. Another classic moment. Daniel has been choked, thrown about, and severely ribboned. When he stabs Osiris with the tranquilizer dart and is released from the ribbon device, he's not capable of doing much more than curling up on the floor, alternating between pushing his palms against his temples – possibly to keep his head from falling off – and pounding on the floor in agony. When Osiris is ringed up to her ship, Janet rushes to check on Rayner while Sam comes to check on Daniel.

Sam asks, "Are you all right?"

Daniel's gasping answer is, "Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think I'm getting used to that thing."

This is so obviously a lie that Sam doesn't even bother to call him on it. On the other hand, this is also so obviously sarcastic that he doesn't need to be called on it.

The Light. The word "fine" gets put to a lot of use in this one. In the initial briefing, Daniel insists, over and over, that Barber was "fine." Later that night, when he is already beginning to succumb to withdrawal from the Light, he goes to Hammond to demand an immediate return.

Hammond surveys him and asks, "Have you slept at all since you returned?"

Daniel's reply is huffy, and Hammond warns him, "I'm not sending you anywhere until you've all had a night's sleep."

Daniel retorts, "I'm fine!"

He's not, of course. The conversation wends its way to its ugly conclusion, and the next time we see Daniel, he's ready to jump off his eighth floor balcony.

Summit. This is the first time we see Daniel claiming to be "fine" in an emotional crisis, rather than a physical one. He and Jacob are traveling to the Goa'uld summit. Jacob asks him if he's sure he can identify each of the System Lords, and Daniel tells him, "Oh, yeah, I'm fine."

After another moment, Jacob looks at Daniel more carefully and asks, "Are you all right, Daniel?"

Daniel says again, "Oh, yeah, I'm fine."

Jacob clearly isn't convinced, because he finds it necessary to warn Daniel that they can't go ahead with the mission if Daniel isn't wholly committed to the assassination. (It's a bit sad, I suppose, that Jacob seemed to recognize how out-of-character such an extreme action was for Daniel, and SG-1 didn't. Teal'c did go to talk to Daniel before they left, at least, but he seemed more in favor of the idea than against it.)

Evolution, part 2. Another subjective one. Jack and Daniel are in the Gate room to greet Teal'c, Bra'tac, Jacob, and Sam as they return. Sam looks at Daniel on his crutches and asks, "Daniel?"

"I'm fine," Daniel replies. I personally think he was being relatively honest in this case, but others might disagree. Don't forget that we have no way of knowing how much time has passed since the rescue.

Chimera. When bad-sport Osiris realizes that she's not going to get what she came for, she ribbons Daniel – the painful kind, not the put-to-sleep kind. It takes several seconds before Jack stops her, mostly by making himself into a target instead. Teal'c checks on Jack, who waves him towards Daniel. (Two for the price of one in this scene, you will note!)

Teal'c demands of Daniel, who is cringing as he pulls out the memory device and clearly in pain, "Will you be all right?"

Daniel mutters, "Yeah, go, go, go, go." As Teal'c obeys and disappears from the screen, we see Daniel is still shaking.

Canon incidents when Daniel doesn't say he's fine.

So, we've seen that there are plenty of occasions in canon when Daniel insists that he's fine. Fanon would suggest that he always does this, no matter what. But there are also plenty of canon incidents when Daniel does not say he's fine. Let's take a look at those.

COTG. When Jack and Teal'c kill the other serpent guards and break the walls of the dungeon, Daniel helps Jack shepherd the other prisoners out. As the last refugee scurries outside, Jack looks at Daniel and asks, "You're gonna be okay?" Daniel's expression, as he wordlessly looks at Jack, very clearly answers that he's not okay at all.

The Serpent's Lair. "I'm dead anyway! …Go, just go! I'll stay and watch your back." 'Nuff said.

In the Line of Duty. Daniel is the first human being on SG-1 to have the pleasure of being zatted!

Teal'c: "Are you injured?"

Daniel (gasping, eyes bugging out): "Dumb question!"

The Gamekeeper. When Daniel refuses "to play" and Teal'c and Jack are brought into their scenario, Jack asks, "You guys all right?"

Daniel says, "I'm not really sure, to tell you the truth."

Secrets. Daniel is shattered by the events on Abydos and the birth of Sha're's child. After Apophis and Ammonet leave, and SG-1 dials home, Jack asks Daniel, "Are you all right?"

"No. No, I'm not," Daniel answers. "But I will be."

Forever in a Day. This one is a little tricky to unravel, but… In the vision, when Daniel wakes up for the third time in the infirmary, after the second time when Sha're seemed to be there and then was swallowed into the wall (is that clear?), Janet turns him to say and asks anxiously, "Daniel, are you okay?"

Daniel says, rather flatly,  "No," before asking, without much hope, if Sha're is there.

Later in the vision, he awakens to discover Sha're in bed beside him. Sha're asks solictiously, "Are you ill, my husband?" Daniel blinks in surprise and says, "Apparently."

Now, as I have often stated, these events are not real. They are, however, reflective of Daniel's behavior, both as he envisions himself and as Sha're envisions him; so while they aren't canon, they are indicative of Daniel's canon reactions.

The Devil You Know. Since the validity of this scene was discussed in the comments of a previous post, I'll preface this by explaining why I accept the visions induced by the Blood of Sokar as canon, with a certain caveat.

None of the visions were scenes that we've seen before, but since they're being induced in conjunction with the memory device, they must be real memories. The only difference is that the Blood of Sokar is warping those memories, as Apophis attempts to force information out of the victims. The warping of the memories is indicated by the phlanging echo of the dialogue, which tells us that the vision is twisting the memory of what really happened to suit Apophis' needs. So yes, Sam and Jacob did have that discussion after her mother died; and Charlie and Jack did have words about a toy gun; and Daniel and Jack did discuss Jack's initial reluctance to believe Daniel's assertion about Sha're's communication through the ribbon device.

So, with the understanding that Daniel's memory is canonical until the Blood of Sokar twists it into "Jack" asking Daniel to name Kheb, we do have a canon scene of Jack telling Daniel, "I just wanted to see how you're doing."

Daniel answers, almost automatically, "Good." Then, after a pause, qualifies that: "…Okay."

New Ground. After Daniel is dragged outside to be confronted by the dead guard and the unburied DHD – and, it is implied, some lengthly private "interrogation" of his own – Sam and Jack are brought into the other tent, where he is once more caged. As Sam settles into her own cage and is locked inside, she looks at him and asks, "Daniel, you okay?" Daniel glances at her, then looks away wordlessly. Clearly, he isn't.

Small Victories. While Daniel remained stoical during Nemesis when he could at least keep vigil, he isn't pretending any more here. When Janet probes the site of his operation, Daniel is clearly wincing. And when she tells him, "You were very lucky," Daniel only says, "That's what they keep saying." It seems clear that he doesn't much believe it himself.

Upgrades. When Daniel collapses after expending his last strength on the naquadah block, Sam and Jack rush over to him. "What's going on?" Sam asks.

"I can't move," Daniel mumbles, and passes out.

I'm including this because there's at least one fic out there that has Daniel, on the verge of collapse, telling Jack on the radio, "I think I broke something, but I'm fi-" and then passes out mid-word. It's hilariously funny, to be honest, but so unquestionably fanon.

Menace. In the scene that was, to me, the ugliest of the episode, Janet is busy putting stiches in Daniel's scalp while SG-1 discusses Reece. When Jack caustically suggests that they "ask the man who just had his head cracked open," Daniel does not say, "I'm fine," despite his apparent desire to go easy on Reece; instead, he only says, "I don't think she meant to hurt me."

Meridian. Calmly, coolly, and clinically, Daniel lists the symptoms of his impending death. There is no pretense that everything will be "fine."

Lockdown. Daniel appears in Jack's office, and Jack grumbles at him, "You're not supposed to be walking around."

"It's my arm," Daniel tells him briskly. He sits down and winces, clearly exaggerating just a tad.

"You were shot!" Jack protests.

Instead of dismissing it, Daniel says calmly. "I know. You shot me." (I really adore them in that scene, I do. Especially Jack's indignant, "Not the point!")

Icon. Daniel gets to his feet for one of the first times during his recovery from his wounds. Leda comes into the bedroom and protests, "You shouldn't be standing."

Daniel wryly assures her, "Oh, don't let appearances fool you. I still feel terrible."

Prometheus Unbound. Daniel is anything but stoical when Vala shoots him in the shoulder.

Full Alert. Daniel is taken into custody and has a blood sample taken. Very pointedly, Daniel says, "Ow!" when the blood is drawn. (Incidentally, since when can you tell if someone is Goa'ulded by a blood test? Must save a lot of wear and tear on MRIs.)

Analyzing the "I'm fine"s and determining why Daniel says it.

While the word "fine" becomes increasingly funny-looking after a while of trawling transcripts, it's an astonishingly common quote on SG-1. Daniel isn't the only one; Sam, Jack, and Teal'c say it nearly as often as Daniel does. To give single examples for each of them: Jack insists he's fine in The Light, right after he explodes at Janet and right before they re-check his dopamine levels to discover that he's become addicted after a single hour on the planet. He has a hand clamped to his forehead at the time. Sam tells Teal'c that she's fine in Paradise Lost, right before she breaks down. A blinded Teal'c assures Nyan, without any real conviction, that he will be fine and recover. (Actually, my favorite "I am fine" from Teal'c is in Avatar, when he's playing the game and he tells virtual Sam and virtual Daniel that the game hasn't ended yet, because "None of you are real." They stare at him incredulously; he looks back at them, actually rolls his eyes a bit, and exasperatedly says, "I am fine.")

So why say it, then? I suggest we can slot "I'm fine," and variations thereof, into three possible categories:

1. The person is trying to avoid an emotional connection or active attention, either from a need to retreat emotionally or from a need to retain the status quo. Examples of this include Daniel's assertion that he's fine in Legacy, when he doesn't want to admit that he's hallucinating; Nemesis, when he desperately needs to keep vigil in the Gateroom; and Summit, where Daniel really isn't all that fine with what he's doing, and is anxious to avoid talking about it. If you want to include Shades of Grey and Maternal Instinct on your list, as enumerated above, they would fall into this category as well.

2. The person is being a macho idiot. No, seriously. :) It's a common fallacy that all too many males – and plenty of females – share: that it's somehow brave and noble to disclaim any pain and insist that you're healthy when you're not. Daniel's brave front at the beginning of Nemesis, when he's actually stupid enough to try and sit up just to show Jack how quickly he's going to recover, fits into this section quite nicely. His attempt to stand up straight in COTG when he first recovers consciousness isn't quite as pointed an example, but it also fits the pattern.

3. The person is actually being sarcastic, which means the more dismissive they are of the pain, the worse it actually is. Snarky Daniel is a delight, even if it's gotten a little too pointed over the years – as Daniel himself admits in Watergate, he's been spending way too much time with Jack O'Neill, and the attitude has to rub off at least a little. Daniel's reply to Makepeace in Into the Fire, and his gasping answer to Sam in The Curse, both fit into this category.

So what's left? There's Need and The Light, but he isn't really himself there. In fact, there's only one incident that neatly slots into the typical fanon trope of "I'm fine," and that's Chimera, where he ignores his own pain in order to send Teal'c to help Jack capture Osiris.

So we've got Chimera, where "I'm fine" is because of Daniel's desire to have his teammates working towards some purpose other than his own health; and Nemesis, where he dismisses his physical distress so that he can keep vigil on his teammates' wellbeing. Those are the two most common fanon explanations for Daniel's "I'm fine" assertions. There's a third, less common theme, in which Daniel claims that he's fine because he wants to avoid what he perceives as undue fuss or unnecessary treatment. Aside from making Daniel behave like a petulant child, that fanon has only Legacy to use as canon; and that Daniel was already affected by medication at the time, and was therefore not entirely himself.

Conclusion: While canon basis for Daniel to say "I'm fine" – even when he really isn't – does exist, there are only two instances when he says it for selfless or altruistic reasons. Furthermore, there are many occasions in canon when he does not say that he is fine. Therefore, the common fanon theme that Daniel always denies physical or emotional pain does not have any real basis in canon.

My personal fanon opinion? The "I'm fine" trope is one of those common fanon themes that I don't particularly mind; there's at least some basis for it in canon, and it fits Daniel's personality. On the other hand, like all fanon assertions, it is often exaggerated to such a degree that it becomes unrealistic and out of character. The wise author will consider the actual canon, rather than the more common fanon, and adjust Daniel's "I'm fine!" accordingly.

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

Comments

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, sure. I said it was devil's advocate. :)

Actually, I can easily buy an aversion to psychologists. Couple the events of Legacy with the therapy that Daniel must have gone through as a kid... even if the latter wasn't traumatic, the former wasn't much fun.

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

Definitely. I can imagine that they had to bring in another psychologist just for Daniel after what happened in Legacy (assuming they didn't already have more than one with the necessary clearance). I can't see him every being comfortable talking to Mackenzie (sp?) again. I liked the psychologist in Morpheus, though. He struck me as someone that people could actually relate to.

Although, therapy isn't always a bad experience. Speaking as someone who did it for a while, I have nothing but good things to say about the my psychologist. OTOH, I also chickened out and stopped going after talking about things got too hard, so I can understand how people in the SGC might learn to avoid the psychologists for fear of having to talk about things that they'd rather not.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, I hadn't thought about an aversion to psychologists. That's interesting.

Though I don't think Mackenzie was necessarily bad in "Legacy" - he was treating him the best he could and when Daniel was getting better Mackenzie did hear him out and then follow through and bring Jack in - he didn't ignore Daniel. I'm not saying Daniel would quickly be comfortable with him, but he wasn't really doing his job badly and I think Daniel understands that.

I can imagine that Daniel's had experience with counselors growing up and than in SGC and I can really see him getting sick of it and knowing exactly what to say to turn them off the scent. He is good with words after all.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

I tend to agree with your assessment of Mackenzie. But whether or not his choices were honestly made with the best intentions, Daniel has got to be unhappy with the results. We can blame them on show constrictions, but the truth is that things moved much too quickly. All it would taken was a throwaway line - something like "it's been five days with no change, we're going to have to commit him to Mental Health" - to make it seem less ridiculously hasty.

I can imagine that Daniel's had experience with counselors growing up and than in SGC and I can really see him getting sick of it and knowing exactly what to say to turn them off the scent. He is good with words after all.

Now that had me grinning and nodding enthusiastically, because I can so see Daniel tying a therapist into mental knots.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

All it would taken was a throwaway line - something like "it's been five days with no change, we're going to have to commit him to Mental Health" - to make it seem less ridiculously hasty.

Maybe. But at the same time, Machello's make-you-crazy bugs seem to work awfully fast - I know Jack and Janet had larger doses but they became completely out of it incredibly quickly, so it seems likely Daniel got pretty bad fairly fast. But I also always assumed there were a few days that passed though probably with no actual fact to base my assumptions on. And would Daniel be more unhappy with the anti-Goa'uld things or with MacKenzie? Of course, I suppose both might be the answer there.

I definitely see Daniel tying therapists in knots. Jack too, actually.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

As far as I can tell, it took the day for Daniel's symptoms to get serious - they gated back, and he began the auditory hallucinations; by late that night, he'd progressed to visual ones as well, which led to his collapse. The next day was the meeting, the next evening was the incident in the VIP room with Jack, and the next thing we know, he's in a padded cell. The only time frame that's vague there is how long Daniel was in the padded room before they came to visit; it's clearly been quite some time, considering the references to "upping the dose every four hours," which implies that he's been on a six or eight hour cycle until then.

There's so much about that episode that hurts. Enough fodder for a post of its own, I dare say!

Jack too, actually.

Hee! Oh, definitely, even if in a different way entirely.

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

I don't think Mackenzie was really bad either. I've seen authors make him into this horrible bad guy, but that doesn't strike me as realistic. He was just doing his job and Daniel was not only hallucinating, but he was also potentially violent. (He attacked Jack when he thought he was a Goa'uld, who's to say he wouldn't get his hands on a weapon and attack someone else much more seriously?)

That said, I think Daniel was just a little resentful about what happened to him. The scene in Legacy when Janet says, "Your dopamine levels are back to normal" and Daniel comes back with "I'm back to normal"...well, he always sounded defensive and a little bitter to me. YMMV, of course. :)

I can see him getting back into a working relationship with Janet fairly quickly, but he's got to associate Mackenzie with the little white room and regardless of Mackenzie's motivations I don't think trust would come easily after that.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

he scene in Legacy when Janet says, "Your dopamine levels are back to normal" and Daniel comes back with "I'm back to normal"...well, he always sounded defensive and a little bitter to me.

Ooooh, yes. And I personally think he'd have a lot harder time trusting Janet afterwards than Mackenzie. Whether or not Mackenzie made the right call, he was following the rules and he wasn't much more than an acquaintance. Janet, OTOH, is a good friend, someone he sees daily, someone he needs to trust implicitly - and someone who has just, to his mind, blindly accepted an "outsider's" opinion instead of exploring the possibilities of an off-world reason for his behavior.

Mackenzie has the advantage of distance. Janet does not. And for Daniel, I would think he would see that as betrayal.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

That said, I think Daniel was just a little resentful about what happened to him. The scene in Legacy when Janet says, "Your dopamine levels are back to normal" and Daniel comes back with "I'm back to normal"...well, he always sounded defensive and a little bitter to me. YMMV, of course. :)

Huh. I don't see that as much as resentful against MacKenzie as general resentment that people aren't immediately believing him when he says he is better. Daniel frequently gets frustrated when he says something he *knows* is true and people don't believe him. I saw him as more annoyed that they had to test his levels and that Janet seemed surprised they were normal - that they wouldn't just accept he was better.

I do agree MacKenzie could likely create bad associations in Daniel's mind - I doubt "Legacy" is one of his fonder memories.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oooh, edging into a future canon vs. fanon discussion, there: Is Daniel usually trusted/believed/acknowledged?

Interesting interpretation of the scene there - I don't think I've seen or read quite that angle before. I'm going to have to think about it.

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

Interesting interpretation of the scene there - I don't think I've seen or read quite that angle before. I'm going to have to think about it.

Isn't it interesting how we can all look at the same thing and come away with very different opinions on what was going on - and then we get exposed to fanon and become a hive mind :)
It's kindof fascinating because that was my immediate interpretation the first time I watched it, but I wonder how much of that is me projecting myself and my feelings/reactions into scenes because we all watch them through the lenses of our own personal experiences.

As for the canon vs. fanon, I think Daniel is generally believed more than not, at least by SGC, though certainly moreso each year as they know and trust him better (which makes sense). I think what specifically catches my eye is how frustrated/annoyed he gets when people don't believe him and he *knows* he is right - like that scene in "Legacy" or after "There But for the Grace of God" or the interrogation in "New Ground" or telling Jack about the growing plant in "One False Step" (though the sound was affecting him by then). I always kindof love Daniel when he's being interrogated because he gets so damn resentful.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oh, I like that! Fanon as hive mind - yep. That suits quite nicely.

And I do agree that Daniel seems almost bewildered when he tells the truth and someone doesn't believe him. It's what he does - he ferrets out mysteries and puts the pieces together. When that's rejected, he's astonished that someone can't see the truth! :) And yes, that's probably why he gets so incredibly snarky at times - sheer resentment.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Of course I don't want to suggest that therapy=bad. Nor do I want to imply that Mackenzie was eeeeevil, althouh goodness knows I've seen a number of authors give him malicious motives.

I also chickened out and stopped going after talking about things got too hard, so I can understand how people in the SGC might learn to avoid the psychologists for fear of having to talk about things that they'd rather not.

Not that is a much more realistic extrapolation: that after everything the SGC people have witnessed and suffered, they might be more than a little reluctant to talk about it. But if there's anyone compentent taking care of their health, they've got to know that mental health is also crucial, and talking to somebody is going to have to happen!