Canon vs. Fanon, part 9: "It's just a deep, bleeding gash..."

[fignewton]

I'd originally planned to do Daniel's pre-series history next, but this particular topic has come up over and over again in the comments sections of previous posts, so we're going to tackle this one first.

"It's just a deep, bleeding gash, but it'll be fine."

A common aspect of fanfic – particularly Daniel-whumping ones! – is Daniel's supposed stoicism, where even the worst wounds and injuries are dismissed with the words, "I'm fine." Now, it's certainly true that Daniel makes an effort to understate his condition at times; all the members of SG-1 do it to some degree, and I'll give some examples of that. But fanon has taken that idea and run away with it, warping it to the point where Daniel will always insist – despite suffering from... oh, let's say a punctured lung, three broken fingers, and a compound fracture of the thigh – that he's fine.

So how often does canon Daniel say, "I'm fine," and how often does he actually mean it?

Brief recap: Canon is defined as anything directly shown during Stargate: The Movie or episodes of the show, with show superseding the movie when there's a contradiction. (Jack's son was named Charlie, not Tyler.) Fanon is defined as widely-accepted concepts that appear in fanfic, but do not have any real basis in canon.

If I've missed any canon appearances which support or contradict my analysis, I would greatly appreciate it if you'd point that out in the comments. I haven't included times that Daniel says that he's fine when he actually is healthy – for example, when he recovers in One False Step, or in Abyss, when he reassures Jack in the closing scene – or when he truly believes he's healthy, like in Tin Man or Urgo before the truth is revealed.

Daniel always insists that he's fine, even when he isn't.

Like most fanon tropes, this one does have solid canon basis… Just not as much as a person might think, if they used fanfic as their source instead of the show. Let's list those canon sources and see how they add up.

COTG. Daniel wakes up in the dungeon, after being unconsious for several hours (possibly as many as sixteen or seventeen!). Skaara embraces him and says, "You're okay?" Daniel answers, "I think so," but as Skaara tightens his grip, Daniel coughs and needs to sit down.

Need. When they return from the planet and are being checked in the infirmary, a restless, agitated Daniel swings his legs on a bed and complains, "This is stupid!"

Sam, trying to calm him down, tells him, "Doctor Frasier says your systems are all out of whack."

Daniel snaps, "Well, I feel fine!"

A short time later, after a rather ugly scene in Sam's lab, he tries to resign from the SGC and collapses on Hammond's office floor.

Holiday. Included for the sake of completion. Daniel insists, over and over, that he's fine. Unfortunately, it's Machello who's doing all the talking, not Daniel.

Into the Fire. When Makepeace leads the S&R team to get SG-1 out of Hathor's clutches, Daniel goes down with a piece of shrapnel in the leg during the firefight at the Stargate. When the initial mad scramble has ended, and they're making their way through the Tok'ra tunnels, Makepeace turns to Daniel and asks, "How's the leg? Can you walk?"

Daniel answers with deadpan sarcasm, "It's just a deep, bleeding gash, but it'll be fine."

This one is a classic case, and my personal theory is that most of the "I'm fine" fanon sprang from this quote. I don't have any proof of that, of course, since I didn't even discover Stargate until the summer of 2005. If I'm right, then it's doubly ironic, considering that Daniel was a lot more sarcastic than he was sincere.

Legacy. In the scene in the VIP room, just before Daniel is committed to Mental Health, Daniel insists he's "fine" twice – once when he means it, and once when he doesn't:

During their games of chess, Daniel realizes that he could have checkmated Jack two moves earlier, and comments, "I don’t know what I was thinking."

"Yeah, well, you're a little off," Jack tells him dryly.

In all sincerity, Daniel says, "I don't feel off. I feel – I feel fine. No headaches, no tension… I mean, I feel normal."

They stop playing chess and switch to gin; and suddenly Daniel isn't all that fine any more, as he hears chevrons locking in the cabinet. He takes out the cards, determined to continue as if everything is normal – but as he pulls out the scorepad, and Jack starts cutting the deck of cards, he sees a symbiote crawling up Jack's arm.

Now Daniel is trying not to panic and says, very carefully, "Jack?"

Jack, of course, doesn't know what Daniel thinks he sees, and only answers casually, "Yeah, what?"

Daniel realizes that this, too, must be a hallucination, and tries to dismiss it as, "It's nothing." Only it isn't nothing, not to Daniel, as he watches the symbiote crawl towards Jack's neck.

Jack sees his tension and asks, "You all right?"

And here Daniel is obviously lying as he says, "I'm fine… How are you?" Seconds later, as he "sees" Jack's eyes flash, he can no longer ignore the hallucination – don't forget, it's not that long since he really saw Jack overtaken by a Goa'uld – and he throws himself at Jack, trying to get the symbiote out of his neck before it's too late.

Forever in a Day. Oddly enough, it's Teal'c who pronounces, "Daniel Jackson will be fine." Either he is assuring Jack and Sam that he killed Ammonet before she could zap him fatally, or he is referring to Daniel's forgiveness, which would serve as a clear indication that Daniel will be able to persevere even in the face of his personal tragedy..

Shades of Grey. This one is extremely subjective, so I'm including it only for the sake of completion. When Jack tries to apologize to Daniel for the "no foundation" thing in the final scene of the episode, Daniel shrugs it off as unimportant, with no need to discuss it. Depending on how you interpret Daniel's reactions in that episode – and hoo boy, are there lots of different interpretations out there! – this may qualify as pretending to be fine when he isn't, or it may be that Daniel was actually not distressed by the incident.

Maternal Instinct. Another subjective one. When Oma Desala disappears with (the then unnamed) Shifu, Jack asks Daniel, "You all right?"

Daniel answers, "Yeah." The sincerity of that reply is open to interpretation; include it or not, according to your own opinion of the scene.

Nemesis. Here are classic quotes numbers two and three. Jack walks into the infirmary, where Daniel is recovering from the operation to have his appendix removed. Jack remarks that Janet has said that it will take about a week before Daniel can be released.

Daniel says, "You know, it's funny. After all we've been though these last… few years, it's my appendix that lays me out. But it's not going to be a week. I mean, I feel fine now."

Jack cheerfully takes his word for it and suggests, "You wanna go fishing?"

Daniel actually tries to sit up. "Actually, I wouldn't, uh…" He realizes that he's not quite as "fine" as he claimed to be, but gamely continues. "Well, maybe…" Nope. Not going anywhere. He settles back on the pillow, still wincing, and finishes, "No, you know, I think – I think I will stay here for two or three…" Another wince. "Three days."

Since there is no practical reason whatsoever for Daniel's little attempt at stoicism here, I will cheerfully put this down in the "stupid macho idiot" category and leave it at that. (More on this below.) Because yes, my Daniel Jackson is, on occasion, a stupid male. And I love him despite it. :)

Later, General Hammond finds Daniel sitting in the control room, obviously in pain. He asks, "Doctor Jackson, are you okay?"

Daniel is clearly lying when he answers, "I'm fine."

Hammond gently suggests that he rest in the infirmary, but Daniel only says, "Sir, I know there's no reason for me to be here, but I just… I feel like I should be here. That's not totally true. Actually, I feel like I should be up there with them."

This one really is the ultimate classic "I'm fine," because this is how fanon uses it most often: Daniel dismissing his own injuries in order to either maintain vigil over his teammates or do something to help them.

The Curse. Another classic moment. Daniel has been choked, thrown about, and severely ribboned. When he stabs Osiris with the tranquilizer dart and is released from the ribbon device, he's not capable of doing much more than curling up on the floor, alternating between pushing his palms against his temples – possibly to keep his head from falling off – and pounding on the floor in agony. When Osiris is ringed up to her ship, Janet rushes to check on Rayner while Sam comes to check on Daniel.

Sam asks, "Are you all right?"

Daniel's gasping answer is, "Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think I'm getting used to that thing."

This is so obviously a lie that Sam doesn't even bother to call him on it. On the other hand, this is also so obviously sarcastic that he doesn't need to be called on it.

The Light. The word "fine" gets put to a lot of use in this one. In the initial briefing, Daniel insists, over and over, that Barber was "fine." Later that night, when he is already beginning to succumb to withdrawal from the Light, he goes to Hammond to demand an immediate return.

Hammond surveys him and asks, "Have you slept at all since you returned?"

Daniel's reply is huffy, and Hammond warns him, "I'm not sending you anywhere until you've all had a night's sleep."

Daniel retorts, "I'm fine!"

He's not, of course. The conversation wends its way to its ugly conclusion, and the next time we see Daniel, he's ready to jump off his eighth floor balcony.

Summit. This is the first time we see Daniel claiming to be "fine" in an emotional crisis, rather than a physical one. He and Jacob are traveling to the Goa'uld summit. Jacob asks him if he's sure he can identify each of the System Lords, and Daniel tells him, "Oh, yeah, I'm fine."

After another moment, Jacob looks at Daniel more carefully and asks, "Are you all right, Daniel?"

Daniel says again, "Oh, yeah, I'm fine."

Jacob clearly isn't convinced, because he finds it necessary to warn Daniel that they can't go ahead with the mission if Daniel isn't wholly committed to the assassination. (It's a bit sad, I suppose, that Jacob seemed to recognize how out-of-character such an extreme action was for Daniel, and SG-1 didn't. Teal'c did go to talk to Daniel before they left, at least, but he seemed more in favor of the idea than against it.)

Evolution, part 2. Another subjective one. Jack and Daniel are in the Gate room to greet Teal'c, Bra'tac, Jacob, and Sam as they return. Sam looks at Daniel on his crutches and asks, "Daniel?"

"I'm fine," Daniel replies. I personally think he was being relatively honest in this case, but others might disagree. Don't forget that we have no way of knowing how much time has passed since the rescue.

Chimera. When bad-sport Osiris realizes that she's not going to get what she came for, she ribbons Daniel – the painful kind, not the put-to-sleep kind. It takes several seconds before Jack stops her, mostly by making himself into a target instead. Teal'c checks on Jack, who waves him towards Daniel. (Two for the price of one in this scene, you will note!)

Teal'c demands of Daniel, who is cringing as he pulls out the memory device and clearly in pain, "Will you be all right?"

Daniel mutters, "Yeah, go, go, go, go." As Teal'c obeys and disappears from the screen, we see Daniel is still shaking.

Canon incidents when Daniel doesn't say he's fine.

So, we've seen that there are plenty of occasions in canon when Daniel insists that he's fine. Fanon would suggest that he always does this, no matter what. But there are also plenty of canon incidents when Daniel does not say he's fine. Let's take a look at those.

COTG. When Jack and Teal'c kill the other serpent guards and break the walls of the dungeon, Daniel helps Jack shepherd the other prisoners out. As the last refugee scurries outside, Jack looks at Daniel and asks, "You're gonna be okay?" Daniel's expression, as he wordlessly looks at Jack, very clearly answers that he's not okay at all.

The Serpent's Lair. "I'm dead anyway! …Go, just go! I'll stay and watch your back." 'Nuff said.

In the Line of Duty. Daniel is the first human being on SG-1 to have the pleasure of being zatted!

Teal'c: "Are you injured?"

Daniel (gasping, eyes bugging out): "Dumb question!"

The Gamekeeper. When Daniel refuses "to play" and Teal'c and Jack are brought into their scenario, Jack asks, "You guys all right?"

Daniel says, "I'm not really sure, to tell you the truth."

Secrets. Daniel is shattered by the events on Abydos and the birth of Sha're's child. After Apophis and Ammonet leave, and SG-1 dials home, Jack asks Daniel, "Are you all right?"

"No. No, I'm not," Daniel answers. "But I will be."

Forever in a Day. This one is a little tricky to unravel, but… In the vision, when Daniel wakes up for the third time in the infirmary, after the second time when Sha're seemed to be there and then was swallowed into the wall (is that clear?), Janet turns him to say and asks anxiously, "Daniel, are you okay?"

Daniel says, rather flatly,  "No," before asking, without much hope, if Sha're is there.

Later in the vision, he awakens to discover Sha're in bed beside him. Sha're asks solictiously, "Are you ill, my husband?" Daniel blinks in surprise and says, "Apparently."

Now, as I have often stated, these events are not real. They are, however, reflective of Daniel's behavior, both as he envisions himself and as Sha're envisions him; so while they aren't canon, they are indicative of Daniel's canon reactions.

The Devil You Know. Since the validity of this scene was discussed in the comments of a previous post, I'll preface this by explaining why I accept the visions induced by the Blood of Sokar as canon, with a certain caveat.

None of the visions were scenes that we've seen before, but since they're being induced in conjunction with the memory device, they must be real memories. The only difference is that the Blood of Sokar is warping those memories, as Apophis attempts to force information out of the victims. The warping of the memories is indicated by the phlanging echo of the dialogue, which tells us that the vision is twisting the memory of what really happened to suit Apophis' needs. So yes, Sam and Jacob did have that discussion after her mother died; and Charlie and Jack did have words about a toy gun; and Daniel and Jack did discuss Jack's initial reluctance to believe Daniel's assertion about Sha're's communication through the ribbon device.

So, with the understanding that Daniel's memory is canonical until the Blood of Sokar twists it into "Jack" asking Daniel to name Kheb, we do have a canon scene of Jack telling Daniel, "I just wanted to see how you're doing."

Daniel answers, almost automatically, "Good." Then, after a pause, qualifies that: "…Okay."

New Ground. After Daniel is dragged outside to be confronted by the dead guard and the unburied DHD – and, it is implied, some lengthly private "interrogation" of his own – Sam and Jack are brought into the other tent, where he is once more caged. As Sam settles into her own cage and is locked inside, she looks at him and asks, "Daniel, you okay?" Daniel glances at her, then looks away wordlessly. Clearly, he isn't.

Small Victories. While Daniel remained stoical during Nemesis when he could at least keep vigil, he isn't pretending any more here. When Janet probes the site of his operation, Daniel is clearly wincing. And when she tells him, "You were very lucky," Daniel only says, "That's what they keep saying." It seems clear that he doesn't much believe it himself.

Upgrades. When Daniel collapses after expending his last strength on the naquadah block, Sam and Jack rush over to him. "What's going on?" Sam asks.

"I can't move," Daniel mumbles, and passes out.

I'm including this because there's at least one fic out there that has Daniel, on the verge of collapse, telling Jack on the radio, "I think I broke something, but I'm fi-" and then passes out mid-word. It's hilariously funny, to be honest, but so unquestionably fanon.

Menace. In the scene that was, to me, the ugliest of the episode, Janet is busy putting stiches in Daniel's scalp while SG-1 discusses Reece. When Jack caustically suggests that they "ask the man who just had his head cracked open," Daniel does not say, "I'm fine," despite his apparent desire to go easy on Reece; instead, he only says, "I don't think she meant to hurt me."

Meridian. Calmly, coolly, and clinically, Daniel lists the symptoms of his impending death. There is no pretense that everything will be "fine."

Lockdown. Daniel appears in Jack's office, and Jack grumbles at him, "You're not supposed to be walking around."

"It's my arm," Daniel tells him briskly. He sits down and winces, clearly exaggerating just a tad.

"You were shot!" Jack protests.

Instead of dismissing it, Daniel says calmly. "I know. You shot me." (I really adore them in that scene, I do. Especially Jack's indignant, "Not the point!")

Icon. Daniel gets to his feet for one of the first times during his recovery from his wounds. Leda comes into the bedroom and protests, "You shouldn't be standing."

Daniel wryly assures her, "Oh, don't let appearances fool you. I still feel terrible."

Prometheus Unbound. Daniel is anything but stoical when Vala shoots him in the shoulder.

Full Alert. Daniel is taken into custody and has a blood sample taken. Very pointedly, Daniel says, "Ow!" when the blood is drawn. (Incidentally, since when can you tell if someone is Goa'ulded by a blood test? Must save a lot of wear and tear on MRIs.)

Analyzing the "I'm fine"s and determining why Daniel says it.

While the word "fine" becomes increasingly funny-looking after a while of trawling transcripts, it's an astonishingly common quote on SG-1. Daniel isn't the only one; Sam, Jack, and Teal'c say it nearly as often as Daniel does. To give single examples for each of them: Jack insists he's fine in The Light, right after he explodes at Janet and right before they re-check his dopamine levels to discover that he's become addicted after a single hour on the planet. He has a hand clamped to his forehead at the time. Sam tells Teal'c that she's fine in Paradise Lost, right before she breaks down. A blinded Teal'c assures Nyan, without any real conviction, that he will be fine and recover. (Actually, my favorite "I am fine" from Teal'c is in Avatar, when he's playing the game and he tells virtual Sam and virtual Daniel that the game hasn't ended yet, because "None of you are real." They stare at him incredulously; he looks back at them, actually rolls his eyes a bit, and exasperatedly says, "I am fine.")

So why say it, then? I suggest we can slot "I'm fine," and variations thereof, into three possible categories:

1. The person is trying to avoid an emotional connection or active attention, either from a need to retreat emotionally or from a need to retain the status quo. Examples of this include Daniel's assertion that he's fine in Legacy, when he doesn't want to admit that he's hallucinating; Nemesis, when he desperately needs to keep vigil in the Gateroom; and Summit, where Daniel really isn't all that fine with what he's doing, and is anxious to avoid talking about it. If you want to include Shades of Grey and Maternal Instinct on your list, as enumerated above, they would fall into this category as well.

2. The person is being a macho idiot. No, seriously. :) It's a common fallacy that all too many males – and plenty of females – share: that it's somehow brave and noble to disclaim any pain and insist that you're healthy when you're not. Daniel's brave front at the beginning of Nemesis, when he's actually stupid enough to try and sit up just to show Jack how quickly he's going to recover, fits into this section quite nicely. His attempt to stand up straight in COTG when he first recovers consciousness isn't quite as pointed an example, but it also fits the pattern.

3. The person is actually being sarcastic, which means the more dismissive they are of the pain, the worse it actually is. Snarky Daniel is a delight, even if it's gotten a little too pointed over the years – as Daniel himself admits in Watergate, he's been spending way too much time with Jack O'Neill, and the attitude has to rub off at least a little. Daniel's reply to Makepeace in Into the Fire, and his gasping answer to Sam in The Curse, both fit into this category.

So what's left? There's Need and The Light, but he isn't really himself there. In fact, there's only one incident that neatly slots into the typical fanon trope of "I'm fine," and that's Chimera, where he ignores his own pain in order to send Teal'c to help Jack capture Osiris.

So we've got Chimera, where "I'm fine" is because of Daniel's desire to have his teammates working towards some purpose other than his own health; and Nemesis, where he dismisses his physical distress so that he can keep vigil on his teammates' wellbeing. Those are the two most common fanon explanations for Daniel's "I'm fine" assertions. There's a third, less common theme, in which Daniel claims that he's fine because he wants to avoid what he perceives as undue fuss or unnecessary treatment. Aside from making Daniel behave like a petulant child, that fanon has only Legacy to use as canon; and that Daniel was already affected by medication at the time, and was therefore not entirely himself.

Conclusion: While canon basis for Daniel to say "I'm fine" – even when he really isn't – does exist, there are only two instances when he says it for selfless or altruistic reasons. Furthermore, there are many occasions in canon when he does not say that he is fine. Therefore, the common fanon theme that Daniel always denies physical or emotional pain does not have any real basis in canon.

My personal fanon opinion? The "I'm fine" trope is one of those common fanon themes that I don't particularly mind; there's at least some basis for it in canon, and it fits Daniel's personality. On the other hand, like all fanon assertions, it is often exaggerated to such a degree that it becomes unrealistic and out of character. The wise author will consider the actual canon, rather than the more common fanon, and adjust Daniel's "I'm fine!" accordingly.

"Anyway, I'm sorry, but that just happens to be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

Comments

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

This one doesn't bother me so much as the others, but it really is a contextual thing for me. If the fic is a whumper and Daniel starts acting like a manchild, and then he says fine? Sorry. Game over for me. But if he says "I'm fine" and it works for the context or it doesn't make me roll my eyes, I'm good.

(Incidentally, since when can you tell if someone is Goa'ulded by a blood test? Must save a lot of wear and tear on MRIs.)

My understanding is that they were looking for naquadah.

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

YAY! You found figgy's post on your flist! (presumably)

My understanding is that they were looking for naquadah.

That's true, they didn't know they could look for naquadah in the blood before until after Sam started exhibiting powers. It's still a bit of wonky canon, isn' it?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

(Incidentally, since when can you tell if someone is Goa'ulded by a blood test? Must save a lot of wear and tear on MRIs.)

My understanding is that they were looking for naquadah.

Huh. Since when? If they've been able to use simple blood work to determine if a person has naquadah in their blood since S2, why is "MRI as Goa'uld test" such a strong part of my fandom consciousness?

Could this be an example of... ::gasp:: FANON??? :)

More practically, though, I imagine that anyone who has naquadah in their blood is going to be stuck doing MRIs for ever after, because Sam is still perfectly vulnerable to being taken as a host by another Goa'uld.

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Well, I think they did an MRI of Daniel in There But For the Grace of God, didn't they? Medically, it makes sense to me that they would use different forms of testing to check for a Goa'uld.

For the Russians, the flavor of the week was blood tests ;)

As far as I'm concerned, the show is way too lax in the medical department. I'd be testing my teams up the wazoo with all the crap they bring back through the Gate...

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Great list!

Interesting you count "Chimera" as canon basis, because as you point out, he's not asked if he is fine, he's asked if he WILL be fine. Future tense. See, it "could" be true (and thankfully, is). It's not like he's saying he *is* fine when he isn't. ;-)

I agree, all of SG-1 will point to the others ahead of themselves. Hell, Daniel was dying of radiation poisoning and was hyperly aware of the danger to others touching him as he raced to the infirmary *sniff* (damn it, why'd you make me think of that episode?) :-(

My favorite I'm fine is Teal'c in "Avatar" too. LOL. It would be good to do a comparison of who says "I'm fine" when and the most. It certainly isn't to the point that the rest of the team practically has to tie Daniel down to see Fraiser/take medicine because he has a cold. They're all equally as bad, probably.

My favorite Daniel answer to "are you okay" is "Secrets", when he answers "no, but I will be." though his snarky comeback to Makepeace runs a close second.

Now, when are you doing his background, huh? When when when? :-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Interesting you count "Chimera" as canon basis, because as you point out, he's not asked if he is fine, he's asked if he WILL be fine.

Chimera's not the only ep where the question is in future tense. COTG is, too, and he doesn't answer that one.

As to what "could" be true, as you so coyly put it... Hey! We have no idea how much time passed between that morning and the moment when Sarah woke in the infirmary! I mean, they had to track down the Tok'ra - never an easy thing to do - and arrange for one of them to deign to arrive at the SGC and perform a de-Goa'ulding operation! Daniel could have collapsed into a coma for days and awoken only a few minutes before Sarah, which would, of course, explain why he was in the infirmary at the right time...

::clears throat::

How much do you want to bet that there's a h/c fic out there with that plot? :)

My favorite Daniel answer to "are you okay" is "Secrets", when he answers "no, but I will be."

I love that one too, probably because I have so much Daniel love in that episode. My personal second, though, is The Curse, especially because he's coherent enough to ask after Steven, even while he's trying to keep his head from exploding.

Now, when are you doing his background, huh? When when when? :-)

Sheesh! This one took a lot more work than I expected, actually. And it's been a pretty crazy week. So we'll just have to say it's next. When next will actually be is another question entirely. :)

[aurora-novarum.livejournal.com]

Chimera's not the only ep where the question is in future tense. COTG is, too, and he doesn't answer that one.

Well, to be fair, he wasn't as experienced at exercising his "weeble gene" in the pilot.

How much do you want to bet that there's a h/c fic out there with that plot? :)

If there isn't, there will be now that you've said it. :-)

So we'll just have to say it's next. When next will actually be is another question entirely. :)

Well, I've got to get back to my rewrite, so I won't pester you anymore...for now (besides, it looks like abyssinia4077 is doing it for me now. Heh).

[redbyrd-sgfic.livejournal.com]

I'll have to think about this more later (when I'm not supposed to be working). I agree with your assessment of category 1, emotional issues.

But my impression of actual injuries is that Daniel doesn't see the point of complaining if the injury has already been treated or can't really be treated but he'll recover on his own. Hence- on crutches- he's fine: he's been treated and is recovering. Appendix- same again.. plus macho stupid (but on him it looks cute!). Ribbon device- take two aspirin and shoot the Goa'uld in the morning.

Now, people in the process of hurting him- like sticking needles in or shooting him?- that he'll complain about. He can still affect the outcome. I don't think he bothers to object when he knows he's being tortured with intent, though.

*g* Now people will undoubtedly point out all the evidence that doesn't fit this pattern.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I'm going to have to consider this. It's an interesting theory, and it does fit with the regular Daniel pattern of dealing with what he can change and coping with what he can't.

LOL at "take two aspirin and shoot the Goa'uld in the morning"!

Yeah, macho stupid looks cute on Daniel. Stupid, yes. But cute.

I will say that he was pretty vocal about being hurt when Vala shot him, and he had no way of knowing that she wasn't planning on continuing - in fact, it seemed rather likely that she would.

[(Anonymous)]

he was pretty vocal about being hurt when Vala shot him

True, but she was sending him *very* mixed signals from the beginning- saying he was attractive, offering to kiss it better, telling him she wasn't going to hurt him (much). Her first 'torture' attempt was to slap him, which doesn't exactly make her look like a serious threat. I'd say in that one Daniel had decided that trying to make her feel bad about what she was doing had a chance of working. Of course he didn't know her very well at that point. But it did get him healed shortly thereafter :).

[abyssinia4077.livejournal.com]

I think so long as this isn't extreme, it doesn't really bother me in fanon since, as you said, it can run true with canon and character. It makes sense to me that Daniel, and the other characters, are going to be reasonable when dealing with injuries and illness.

As a team they have to depend on each other to get out of tight situations and it's important to be aware of the injuries of your teammates and so we don't tend to see them hiding problems (hell, Jack makes you very aware when he gets whumped). I think Daniel's very good at accepting reality (maybe due to having his situation change so often) so he isn't going to ignore an injury, but he isn't going to let it hold him back either. He'll acknowledge it, deal with as best he can (whether it's simply hold his hand over the wound to stench the bleeding or let Janet keep him in the infirmary), and move on. And this is really true for all of them, which means sometimes they push themselves too hard, but only when it is necessary (even if only in their own heads).

When he says that he's fine, it doesn't mean everything is perfect, but it does mean that the people he's talking to are aware of what isn't currently fine and he sees no need to make them worry because nothing more can be done.

What really bothers me in fanon is when they talk about the team (and, usually, Daniel) either refusing to visit the infirmary or trying to escape. I haven't seen much canon evidence for that one.

Right. I don't think I'm being very coherent here - not quite sure I'm getting my thoughts out correctly. But I am very, very excited for when you get to pre-show Daniel.

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

What really bothers me in fanon is when they talk about the team (and, usually, Daniel) either refusing to visit the infirmary or trying to escape. I haven't seen much canon evidence for that one.

*nods* That's the sort of fanon that will throw me out a story. Daniel (or anyone, really) saying "I'm fine" when they're not really doesn't bug me because, like you said, they're not saying things are fantastic, they're saying, "There's nothing that we can really do about this right now and we all know it, so let's just keep going." But I've read stories where Daniel is half-dead and refuses to see a doctor and that just has no basis. None of them seem very doctor-phobic to me.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

But I've read stories where Daniel is half-dead and refuses to see a doctor and that just has no basis. None of them seem very doctor-phobic to me.

I don't think I've ever actually read a fic like that, and I'm not too bothered that I've missed it. :) But unless there's an in-story explanation for that - something from his tragic childhood, maybe, and a traumatic experience with some eeeevil doctor - I don't buy it.

Besides, he doesn't have much trouble with Janet. :)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

So far, there seems to be a general consensus that this fanon isn't too bad, as long as it's not overly exaggerated. You've made some interesting points here, though.

As a team they have to depend on each other to get out of tight situations and it's important to be aware of the injuries of your teammates and so we don't tend to see them hiding problems

I like that observation. How responsible would it be to hide a wound or injury, if that means you can't pull your weight when the team needs it? And LOL about Jack really letting us know when he's hurt; it makes it even more irritating when this same fanon is applied to Jack, because for him it really is out of character.

What really bothers me in fanon is when they talk about the team (and, usually, Daniel) either refusing to visit the infirmary or trying to escape. I haven't seen much canon evidence for that one.

It's annoying because it would just as irresponsible as lying about their health status while they're on missions. It's one thing to write a fic about Daniel brushing off a headache and going home, and realizing that he's actually sick when it's too late to do anything about it; it's quite another to write a story where Daniel slips out of the infirmary because he doesn't have the patience to stay hooked up to his IV. :p And you're right - there is no canon evidence for this at all. And good grief, hasn't anyone noticed those ubiquitous SFs? How far do you think they could get if they tried to escape?

[moonshayde.livejournal.com]

Yes, I cannot wait for pre-show Daniel. Though, I will have to find a way to keep my tendancy to know-it-all-ism at bay.

(Daniel and his past is a touchy subject with me.)

[6beforelunch.livejournal.com]

For me, one of the most telling moments along this theme is the scene at the end of Off the Grid when Cameron is going on about how great their job is and Daniel looks at him like he's cracked and then mutters about going to find a doctor. Presumably, he wants a doctor either because he feels his wounds are bad enough to warrant another look or because he wants a painkiller (and a painkiller that's strong enough to have to be given out by a doctor at that). Either way, it doesn't hint to someone who constantly ignores his own injuries.

Personally, I think Daniel will ignore/dismiss his own injuries if it's necessary to the situation (like Chimera), when people fussing over him might lead to the overall mission objective being compromised. Otherwise, he doesn't seem like the type to dismiss his pain out of hand.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Oooh, nice one! I don't know S9 well enough to remember details like that. I only watched that one once - and when I considered the ep for this list, that quote didn't come to mind. I always thought the others were portraying a tremendous amount of self-control when they didn't hit him then. :)

Personally, I think Daniel will ignore/dismiss his own injuries if it's necessary to the situation (like Chimera), when people fussing over him might lead to the overall mission objective being compromised. Otherwise, he doesn't seem like the type to dismiss his pain out of hand.

Yep. That sums it all up, really.

[green-grrl.livejournal.com]

Excellent, as always!!! I'll just ditto Redbyrd's theory -- I don't think Daniel hides his injuries, but his "fine" can be in context. ("My wounded leg is treated, and more fine than it was in Honduras." "My head will be fine when the ribboning wears off, but it won't be if Osiris escapes and comes back to ribbon me later.")

Looking forward to the background post! :-)

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

"My wounded leg is treated, and more fine than it was in Honduras." "My head will be fine when the ribboning wears off, but it won't be if Osiris escapes and comes back to ribbon me later."

LOL!! I can so see Daniel working out logic equations like that, coolly and pragmatically even as he winces and ouches.

Background post hopefully going up next week. :)

[princessofg.livejournal.com]

fascinating. i seem to have avoided an entire class of fanfic because this bit of fanon is not at all a sore thumb for me.

i think you might want to draw more distinctions in your examples between EMOTIONAL damage and PHYSICAL damage.

but once again -- careful and detailaed. go you. and i love Lockdown, too. :).

I haven't forgotten the discusson of Forever In A Day and its link to the Blood of Sokar visions that i want to have. RL has me running hard, tho. thanks again for the meta.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

i seem to have avoided an entire class of fanfic because this bit of fanon is not at all a sore thumb for me.

Oh, this isn't half as irritating to me as "Dannyboy" or "Daniel is a pacifist." Not even a quarter as annoying, really. But it is persistent fanon, so it deserves to be analyzed.

i think you might want to draw more distinctions in your examples between EMOTIONAL damage and PHYSICAL damage.

Hmm, I need some clarification here. :) I do think that Daniel is more honest about emotional pain - the examples that I cited where he doesn't say he's fine are mostly those. But I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

Yeah, Lockdown is fun. I think Mitchell is the only member of SG-1 who hasn't shot Daniel yet. The boy is obviously behind the curve in what it takes to be a true member of the team. ;)

I look forward to your FIAD comments if and when you get to them! I discussed the Blood of Sokar scenes in this post, too, you may have noticed. :) Hope RL let's you have some breathing space. I've observed that you've been pretty busy with some meta of your own; I haven't commented because it's mostly been about parts of fandom outside my purview (that is, not gen), but the latest beta chapter discussion is fascinating!

[madaboutdanny.livejournal.com]

Hi, I'm little late on this, sorry. I love your Canon VS Fanon, but I think that in Nemesis Daniel was trying to avoid fishing with Jack, not pretending to be a macho.

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

First of all, hi! There's never "late" for discussions like these - it's the ongoing organic nature of LJ, which is why I'm pretty happy with this corner of the fandom. :)

I suppose interpretation of that scene can be pretty subjective. OTOH, if Daniel really only wanted to avoid having to go fishing with Jack, he didn't need to put on an act - all he had to do was say, "Yeah, right, like Janet will let me out of this bed." It's the tone of his "Actually..." and his absolute insanity in trying to sit up immediately after abdominal surgery (says the woman who went through 2 C-sections) that makes me cheerfully dub him a macho idiot who wanted to show how strong and brave he was.

I don't say he was pretending to be macho. I say he was being macho! Dear Daniel. We love you even when you're being stupid. :)

[samantilles.livejournal.com]

One thing I notice in fics is Daniel's adverse reaction to taking medications from tylenol to massive pain killers. I just don't see it though in cannon aspects. What are your thoughts on this aspect of Daniel and Medicine?

[sg-fignewton.livejournal.com]

Heh, yes - that one is definitely on my list, and should've rightfully been included in the infirmary fanon section. There is no canon incident when Daniel protests the mind-numbing aspects of drugs, or reacts badly to regular drugs (although that's probably part of the "Daniel is allergic to everything" fanon!). I hope to include some of this is future posts. :)